Help needed with newbie recipe idea.

[PolishLad]

Hi guys, so happy to find this forum, I've spend last few weeks browsing different sites to get as much informations about beer brewing and this one seems very helpful and friendly (and mostly use metric system for goodness sake).
I'm totally new to this and even though my family was always into making different sorts of beverages, wines, meads and stronger liquors, no one tried to make beer.
So it's my time to shine.
I don't want this to become an obsession (which may happen if it hasn't already) and become this beer snob, I want to keep it easy and fun.
I really like the idea of beer kits but I know that whole fun will be with upgrading and experimenting with recipes, otherwise it will be just instead noodle soup... but with beer.
So I've done one already, Wilko IPA, and using some of the tips from different threads I'm satisfied with the results, 7/10 I will say.
Yesterday I've brewed another kit, Wilko Cerveza, with 500g light spray malt, 500g of sugar, sadly couldn't lay my hands on any better beer yeast, so I've used those included, they did well last time, and I've added some yeast nutrients.
Here comes the part that I'm looking for some help,
I'm planning on adding 25g of Cascade hops towards end of secondary fermentation with half of orange peel that I'll keep in two shots of vodka for a week or so.
What do you think? Will this work?
I was planning to add hops and orange peel 3 days before bottling but I also want to try beer finings. Can I do both at the same time?

Thank you for help!

 

[Clint]

You can,in theory,do what you like to your beer. The cerveza is more of a lager type kit like Sol beer...the cascade isn't a bad idea but will give it a US style IPA sort of taste,the peel is more common in some wheat beers..so you will be mixing it up a bit! I have made the cerveza kit and added saaz hops which is more of a lager style hop.
Why not just make the kit as instructed and see if you like it. Then next time you could split it and try an experiment with half of it.

 

[PolishLad]

You can,in theory,do what you like to your beer. The cerveza is more of a lager type kit like Sol beer...the cascade isn't a bad idea but will give it a US style IPA sort of taste,the peel is more common in some wheat beers..so you will be mixing it up a bit! I have made the cerveza kit and added saaz hops which is more of a lager style hop.
Why not just make the kit as instructed and see if you like it. Then next time you could split it and try an experiment with half of it.

Yeah, I know I'm mixing different styles, but I'm not big fan of plain beers, that why making my own seem way better for me than spending fortune in craft beer shops trying to find something different all the time. But saaz hops sounds good. Cheers!

 

[Pirate_Pete]

I've made a Cerveza. It is a very bland beer.
For one thing. I never add sugar / dextrose to Lager type beers. I just add malt.
Sugar will give you more alcohol but thin the beer.
Going from when I've tried adding things to beer & cider in the past I'd say your half of orange peel will not make a difference to the taste.
Off the top of my head I'd guess you'd need zest of at least 4-5 oranges. Even that may not impart much taste.
I could be totally wrong with that though. Have a quick google. There's a few video's available.
I'm only guessing but I'd say the 25 grams of Cascade would completely cover any hint of orange that you're attempting to achieve.
The hops you're adding are OK, but as Clint says Saaz is more a Lager hop.

As for the finings. I don't think it'll make much difference with that brew. I wouldn't bother. Read below.
I've tried putting gelatine in my brews a couple of times. Can't say it makes a difference really.

When I made the Cerveza I added 4.5 litres of grapefruit juice & the zest and pulp from 5 grapefruits.
It was bloody lovely. However it didn't clear, not that worried me overly.
So as it's citrus season here in Australia I was about to make another one. Ready to drink at Christmas when it's hot.
But I've just found a couple of bottles of last years brew in the garage.
It's as clear as anything, but doesn't taste as good as the cloudy version.
I was thinking of using finings / gelatine in the next one, but I think I'll drink it cloudy.
I've come to the conclusion this is a make and drink with 3-6 months, not leave for a year beer.

 

[terrym]

@PolishLad
If you want to up your game in brewing beer from kits, which is what I understand you want to do, I suggest you move away from 1.5kg kits, and go for kits with more malt. Its no good spending your hard earned on 'better' yeasts when you only have the basics in terms of ingredients., Better spend it buying better kits which will deliver better results with or without the kit yeast. And even the 1.7kg kits don't cost that much more, plus some are even cheaper if you shop around.

 

[PolishLad]

@PolishLad
If you want to up your game in brewing beer from kits, which is what I understand you want to do, I suggest you move away from 1.5kg kits, and go for kits with more malt. Its no good spending your hard earned on 'better' yeasts when you only have the basics in terms of ingredients., Better spend it buying better kits which will deliver better results with or without the kit yeast. And even the 1.7kg kits don't cost that much more, plus some are even cheaper if you shop around.

I agree with you, another better kit is next on my list.
Just want to know if my understanding is right that those kit may be a good base for experimenting and if so does that what I've wrote above will work?
I'll use saaz hops instead of cascade for secondary.
Btw, thank you for all your threads and comments, they are very helpful!

 

[PolishLad]

I've made a Cerveza. It is a very bland beer.
For one thing. I never add sugar / dextrose to Lager type beers. I just add malt.
Sugar will give you more alcohol but thin the beer.
Going from when I've tried adding things to beer & cider in the past I'd say your half of orange peel will not make a difference to the taste.
Off the top of my head I'd guess you'd need zest of at least 4-5 oranges. Even that may not impart much taste.
I could be totally wrong with that though. Have a quick google. There's a few video's available.
I'm only guessing but I'd say the 25 grams of Cascade would completely cover any hint of orange that you're attempting to achieve.
The hops you're adding are OK, but as Clint says Saaz is more a Lager hop.

As for the finings. I don't think it'll make much difference with that brew. I wouldn't bother. Read below.
I've tried putting gelatine in my brews a couple of times. Can't say it makes a difference really.

When I made the Cerveza I added 4.5 litres of grapefruit juice & the zest and pulp from 5 grapefruits.
It was bloody lovely. However it didn't clear, not that worried me overly.
So as it's citrus season here in Australia I was about to make another one. Ready to drink at Christmas when it's hot.
But I've just found a couple of bottles of last years brew in the garage.
It's as clear as anything, but doesn't taste as good as the cloudy version.
I was thinking of using finings / gelatine in the next one, but I think I'll drink it cloudy.
I've come to the conclusion this is a make and drink with 3-6 months, not leave for a year beer.

What a great idea! Have you use kit or ag? How do you add juice to beer? At what stage?
I'm honestly quite confused with all tutorials about adding zest. Some add whole truckload, but usually they say to add half of orange zest.
Did you ever use peel soaked in vodka?

 

[AleDr]

What a great idea! Have you use kit or ag? How do you add juice to beer? At what stage?
I'm honestly quite confused with all tutorials about adding zest. Some add whole truckload, but usually they say to add half of orange zest.
Did you ever use peel soaked in vodka?

Got to agree with Pirate Pete
I have used grapefruit peel in vodka in a stab at Elvis juice
The zest from 4 grapefruit in 23 l batch
Should have used more

 

[Pirate_Pete]

What a great idea! Have you use kit or ag? How do you add juice to beer? At what stage?
I'm honestly quite confused with all tutorials about adding zest. Some add whole truckload, but usually they say to add half of orange zest.
Did you ever use peel soaked in vodka?

Working 12 hours days for a few days. I'll write up what I did later in the week.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

OK, after making this twice I've realised how I could hopefully make it better.
So next time.

Coopers Cerveza (But really any lager would do I reckon)
500 grams Light Dry Malt Extract
3 litres of Grapefruit Juice
I buy the one they keep cold in the supermarket, but maybe there's not as maybe bits in the long life stuff that's just on the shelf so I suppose either would do.
5 Grapefruit
Lager yeast, but that's only as I have some from a lager I've just brewed. Otherwise kit yeast.
Gelatine ( I just use the stuff you buy in supermarkets )
Pectolase maybe ( see below )

Obviously the Cerveza & malt will be mixed in the FV as normal.
Grate the grapefruit for the zest.
Peel the white stuff off the grapefruit. Then liquidise the grapefruit.
Put the bottled grapefruit juice through a strainer.
Pour the strained grapefruit juice into the FV.
Then put the liquidised grapefruit, the zest and the bits from the strainer into a hop bag.
Add that to the FV. Top up to 21 litres.
I'd have to check how much gelatine to use. But I'd add that to the FV too.
Remove the hop bag after 7 days. I leave it to ferment for 14 days

I didn't put gelatine in before but I'll try it this time. I'm sure the beer will still come out cloudy, which I'm OK with.
However I'd like to limit the amount of grapefruit bits that get into the bottle.
Another thing I've thought of adding is pectolase. That may well help with it clearing. pectolase - Google Search
I don't recall boiling the zest. It's not in my notes. But you could boil them in some water and strain before adding to the hop bag.
Use the water that you boiled the zest in to mix the Cerveza & malt in the FV.
I have read that freezing fruit before fermenting is good. Maybe liquidise them and put them in a 5 litre ice cream container and freeze.
There's not usually that much room in our freezers though.

I tend to drink this in the summer as a cool refreshing drink, so don't make it very alcoholic.
But I reckon if you wanted to, you could add a kilo of sugar or dextrose and it would still make a good beer.
As I type that I'm thinking I might make a more alcoholic version sometime.
Bear in mind you'd need more yeast if you plan to up the alcohol content.

Sorry about the rambling post. Even I'm not 100% sure how I'll make this next time.
But I think if you make the beer using any citrus it would be pretty good.
It just so happens I like grapefruit.

Any questions, please ask.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

Got to agree with Pirate Pete
I have used grapefruit peel in vodka in a stab at Elvis juice
The zest from 4 grapefruit in 23 l batch
Should have used more

I like grapefruit juice & vodka. A nice vodka and grapefruit mixed together is bloody lovely.
I don't tend to keep it in the house though as it wouldn't last long.

I've never had Elvis juice. Maybe I'll see if I can find some locally. I'll try one and let you know how mine compares.
Just had a quick look Elvis Juice is out of stock. Probably something to do with that bug that's going around.

 

[GerritT]

Yeah, I know I'm mixing different styles, but I'm not big fan of plain beers, that why making my own seem way better for me than spending fortune in craft beer shops trying to find something different all the time. But saaz hops sounds good. Cheers!

Not only different stiles, but also techniques. One of the fun parts in homebrewing is designing your own recipe, absolutely, but the predictability will improve when you focus a bit on process in the beginning. Consistency is king!

But you'll learn along the way, as we all did

 

[PolishLad]

OK, after making this twice I've realised how I could hopefully make it better.
So next time.

Coopers Cerveza (But really any lager would do I reckon)
500 grams Light Dry Malt Extract
3 litres of Grapefruit Juice
I buy the one they keep cold in the supermarket, but maybe there's not as maybe bits in the long life stuff that's just on the shelf so I suppose either would do.
5 Grapefruit
Lager yeast, but that's only as I have some from a lager I've just brewed. Otherwise kit yeast.
Gelatine ( I just use the stuff you buy in supermarkets )
Pectolase maybe ( see below )

Obviously the Cerveza & malt will be mixed in the FV as normal.
Grate the grapefruit for the zest.
Peel the white stuff off the grapefruit. Then liquidise the grapefruit.
Put the bottled grapefruit juice through a strainer.
Pour the strained grapefruit juice into the FV.
Then put the liquidised grapefruit, the zest and the bits from the strainer into a hop bag.
Add that to the FV. Top up to 21 litres.
I'd have to check how much gelatine to use. But I'd add that to the FV too.
Remove the hop bag after 7 days. I leave it to ferment for 14 days

I didn't put gelatine in before but I'll try it this time. I'm sure the beer will still come out cloudy, which I'm OK with.
However I'd like to limit the amount of grapefruit bits that get into the bottle.
Another thing I've thought of adding is pectolase. That may well help with it clearing. pectolase - Google Search
I don't recall boiling the zest. It's not in my notes. But you could boil them in some water and strain before adding to the hop bag.
Use the water that you boiled the zest in to mix the Cerveza & malt in the FV.
I have read that freezing fruit before fermenting is good. Maybe liquidise them and put them in a 5 litre ice cream container and freeze.
There's not usually that much room in our freezers though.

I tend to drink this in the summer as a cool refreshing drink, so don't make it very alcoholic.
But I reckon if you wanted to, you could add a kilo of sugar or dextrose and it would still make a good beer.
As I type that I'm thinking I might make a more alcoholic version sometime.
Bear in mind you'd need more yeast if you plan to up the alcohol content.

Sorry about the rambling post. Even I'm not 100% sure how I'll make this next time.
But I think if you make the beer using any citrus it would be pretty good.
It just so happens I like grapefruit.

Any questions, please ask.

What a great idea.
So you don't sanitize peel in any way? That's why usually people boil it. But it will remove oils from the peel.
I've read that adding zest in early stage of fermentation will take away some of the flavours as oils will rise with co2 and escape. That's why people keep peel in vodka few days before bottling, and then add it to bottling bucket with priming sugar. That's maybe the reason why they use less peel as most of the flavours are kept in the beer.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

Sorry, I honestly can't remember if I boiled the peel or not, but I don't think I did.
I've never put the peel in vodka, as I would have to buy vodka. I only like the expensive stuff, and an opened bottle wouldn't last long.

Another idea is just to make a lager & add 4.5 litres of grapefruit (or whatever juice).
Not worry about the peel. I'm sure you'll get the same kind of flavour without having to worry
about peeling, liquidising and straining the grapefruit.

 

[PolishLad]

Update.
It's been 16 days since I've bottled this beer and it turned out great. Very light and refreshing, smells zesty and has citrusy aftertaste.
Instead of orange I've used peel from 2 lemons and 2 limes. They sat in 100ml of vodka for a week. I could use more definitely as it's noticeable even by friends who had no idea about peel added but its not very bold.