Help choosing a wort chiller

[terrym]

There seems to be a sudden interest in the use of copper as a suitable material to be in contact with beer. To be clear, stainless steel and plastics have only been available as an engineering material of construction in quantity since the middle of the last century, Before then nearly all the brewing equipment in contact with beer was made of copper, and some older breweries still have copper. Larger breweries had their own coppersmiths and so did supporting engineering contractors. So copper is fine. And anyone concerned about the toxity of a few ppb of copper in their beer should be more concerned about the toxicity of the alcohol they are drinking.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Thanks. So fine for immersion chillers in hot wort, but not, for example, in your magic box (also called a jockey box) or homemade kegerator for beer dispensing.

Yes, it seems that post fermentation is a potential hazard. But I guess it's about exposure time. One might think that if the amount of copper absorbed by a hot acidic solution is insufficient to kill yeast and that is significantly less to be toxic to humans then the amount of copper absorbed by a cold (chilled) acidic solution is not going to be significantly more. But I guess it's safer to avoid contact with copper alloys post fermentation.

 

[phillc]

There seems to be a sudden interest in the use of copper as a suitable material to be in contact with beer. To be clear, stainless steel and plastics have only been available as an engineering material of construction in quantity since the middle of the last century, Before then nearly all the brewing equipment in contact with beer was made of copper, and some older breweries still have copper. Larger breweries had their own coppersmiths and so did supporting engineering contractors. So copper is fine. And anyone concerned about the toxity of a few ppb of copper in their beer should be more concerned about the toxicity of the alcohol they are drinking.

Another way to look at that is, because plastic and stainless steel were not available as an engineering material of construction in quantity prior to the middle of the last century, copper was commonly used because it was available. Now that stainless is far more available, should copper continue to be used?

Times move on. We shouldn't have lead water pipes anymore, nor asbestos roofs.

Concensus seems to be that copper is still still fine, at least up to and including during fermentation, and that's the conversation I wanted to have.

 

[BrewsWayne]

Concensus seems to be that copper is still still fine, at least up to and including during fermentation, and that's the conversation I wanted to have.

Not according to folks who follow the Low Oxygen Brewing philosophy.
Methods of the Low Oxygen Brewhouse

 

[foxbat]

Hi everyone

Up to now I've been brewing 5-gallon batches using the Palmer method (3-gallons in a 5-gallon boiling kettle mixed with cold water in the fermenter). I've been chilling the kettle down using iced water in the sink.

I'm about to purchase a 15-gallon kettle for all-grain brewing and I need some help choosing a wort chiller. They all seem a little complex. Ideally, I'd like something that has the least chance of introducing contamination. I'm not desperate to get the kettle down to temperature as fast as humanly possible (although quick is nice).

What would your recommendations be? I'm currently looking at this wort chiller from Northern Brewer:

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/northern-brewer-stainless-counterflow-chiller
Cheers,
Andy

If you're looking to make a long term investment then take a look at the Jaded Hydra stainless version. It'll cost you to get it to the UK although it ought to last forever. I'm with you on the materials - apart from the lines my wort and beer only ever touches stainless steel.

 

[terrym]

Now that stainless is far more available, should copper continue to be used?

Times move on. We shouldn't have lead water pipes anymore, nor asbestos roofs.

Concensus seems to be that copper is still still fine, at least up to and including during fermentation, and that's the conversation I wanted to have.

For brewery M of C there is simply better choice, as time has indeed moved on . Cost, availability and perhaps ease of working have made copper much less attractive than previously. But it's still used. If it had been found to be toxic like your examples of lead and asbestos it would have been stripped out of those old breweries years ago.
And, as an aside, copper is still used as a Mof C in the distillery industry and of course is used to pipe potable water.

 

[andyg55]

If you're looking to make a long term investment then take a look at the Jaded Hydra stainless version. It'll cost you to get it to the UK although it ought to last forever. I'm with you on the materials - apart from the lines my wort and beer only ever touches stainless steel.

This one?

https://jadedbrewing.com/products/the-hydra?variant=522751093
Looks like a winner actually.

 

[Clint]

Looking at the antibacterial quality of materials...in work we make wound dressings containing silver...perhaps silver piping would be the best?!

 

[dwhite60]

Interesting in that brandy has historically been made in copper stills. Some distillers claim to still be doing it. Christian Brothers for instance.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[foxbat]

This one?

https://jadedbrewing.com/products/the-hydra?variant=522751093
Looks like a winner actually.

That's the one. This is the stainless version. @Simonh82 bought and imported the copper version and posted about it in this thread.

 

[Jason42]

Just decided to knock a spiral chiller up with a bit of copper pipe at work. A few hose fittings and job done

 

[Brewnaldo]

Anyone know of a straight out the box, with hozelock connections chiller? I really CBA with any sort of build. I have enough lockdown jobs getting thrown at me.

 

[terrym]

Not according to folks who follow the Low Oxygen Brewing philosophy.
Methods of the Low Oxygen Brewhouse

Not quite.
Quotes from that article....
"Copper, Brass and Aluminum can introduce potential for oxidation reactions"

which presumably leads to

• Eliminate Copper, Brass and Aluminum (if, and where, possible)

but then in the next bullet point

• If using these metals, Copper chillers seem to be the most widely used piece,

Finally what does 'can introduce potential for oxidation reactions' actually mean in real quantitative terms? I have no idea. Perhaps you can help me out.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Finally what does 'can introduce potential for oxidation reactions' actually mean in real quantitative terms? I have no idea. Perhaps you can help me out.

I think that's a possibly maybe

 

[Ghillie]

I use a plate chiller and they work really well. Mine is 30 plates I believe and cools 30 litres from boiling to pitching temp in about 40 minutes.

That's not good for a plate chiller... Are we talking 23L batches here?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

That's not good for a plate chiller... Are we talking 23L batches here?

Anything between 23 and 25 + the 3 litres of mucky sludge that gets left in the bottom of the boiler.

It might be a little quicker if I took more notice(!) but between 30 and 40 minutes is about right. If you needed it to be faster you could improve on this significantly with increased flow.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

That's not good for a plate chiller... Are we talking 23L batches here?

As it happens I had a brew on today so gave it a test. I don’t normally use a particularly high flow rate but today I gave it the full beans just to see...

25 litres from boiling to pitching in 13 minutes.

 

[Clint]

Sounds like you have it knocked into a cocked hat...

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Sounds like you have it knocked into a cocked hat...

I won’t do it again without good reason, just wanted to see how quick it would be.

 

[Ghillie]

As it happens I had a brew on today so gave it a test. I don’t normally use a particularly high flow rate but today I gave it the full beans just to see...

25 litres from boiling to pitching in 13 minutes.

That's what I'd expect from a plate chiller!

I won’t do it again without good reason, just wanted to see how quick it would be.

Why wouldn't you do it again? What's not to like about quicker chilling and knocking time off your brewday? I'm clearly missing something...