Heat pumps are they a waste of money?

[Rodcx500z]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...booming-cbi-green-sector-jobs-energy-security

Sorry to piss on anybody's anti-green propaganda.

the Guardian i will take that with a pinch of salt

 

[pilgrimhudd]

the Guardian i will take that with a pinch of salt

GBeebies reports it too.

https://www.gbnews.com/money/economy-net-zero-gdp-growth-uk

 

[Druss]

Maybe I didn't read the article right, but it's essentially saying that because the government et al have demanded that net zero is the only way forward, a lot of people are taking that bait and getting jobs in the net zero sector...

This is from the article: "The analysis showed economic growth and climate action go together, said the report’s authors"

But doesn't that mean, in essence, that if the powers that be say "everyone will be dead in ten years unless we get more vending machine repair people" then there's a huge influx in jobs for vending machine repair people, that proves what they said to begin with?

Seems a bit like a self fulfilling prophecy, I'm sure I'm missing something here, nobody is really that gullible right?

 

[Agentgonzo]

nobody is really that gullible right?

You've met the British public, right?

 

[Rodcx500z]

I think we have reached the point were BS is believable and is the norm

 

[Appleton Brews]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...booming-cbi-green-sector-jobs-energy-security

Sorry to piss on anybody's anti-green propaganda.

I bet that wasn’t in the Telegraph.

 

[Appleton Brews]

the Guardian i will take that with a pinch of salt

So if it’s in the Telegraph or Mail it’s true but the Guardian or Independent then it’s BS. Very sad.

 

[conorm]

We built our house in 2020.

I did a lot of research and puts lots of thought in to our design. Our architectural technologist is passive house certified so we went in to the project with a huge focus on insulation and energy efficiency.

We ended up with a 9kW heatpump, under flor heating, loads of insulation.

It's amazing, it works perfectly and I wouldn't change it for the world. BUT... Gas would have been a cheaper install, and running costs would have been about the same.

There are a few issues which have been raised already that I see every day in the self build forum I'm on.

1. They are not cheaper to run than gas due to the fact that gas is too cheap in the UK.

2. The heatpump grants have attracted stawths of chancers who are doing poor installs and massively over charging. Our system for heat pump, 300l cylinder, buffer, controls, under floor heating over 250m², etc, cost about £9k all in before VAT reclaim. Heat pump companies are charging huge amounts and gearing it so basically the £7.5k grant is their pure profit.

3. Poor installs, drafty, poorly insulated houses and the gas / electric price disparity is fuelling a huge negative press for heat pumps.

4. I've seen huge numbers of people that changed from gas to heatpump because they were told it would be cheaper. A slight slide in sCOP from 3 to 2.5, means it's more expensive than gas. I've seen plenty of installs were people are getting sCOP of 2, or even 1.5. Again, down to poor installs, lack of understanding within the industry.

5. The quality of new build housing is shocking, with many examples of the above issues happening in new builds. Under sized pumps, running at too high flow temperatures, complicated zoning and controls, leading to poor COPs and huge bills.

6. Heat pumps are the only way to decarbonise heating systems.

In summary, existing housing stock is ****, new builds not much better, gas is too cheap, grant bandwagons aren't helping, heatpumps work when done right.

 

[Appleton Brews]

We built our house in 2020.

I did a lot of research and puts lots of thought in to our design. Our architectural technologist is passive house certified so we went in the project with a huge focus on insulation and energy efficiency.

We ended up with a 9kW heatpump, under door heating, load sof insulation.

It's amazing, it works perfectly and I wouldn't change it for the world. BUT... Gas would have been a cheaper install, and running costs would have been about the same.

There are a few issues which have been raised already that I see every day in the self build forum I'm on.

1. They are not cheaper to run than gas due to the fact that gas is too cheap in the UK.

2. The heatpump grants have attracted stawths of chancers who are doing poor installs and massively over charging. Our system for heat pump, 300l cylinder, buffer, controls, under floor heating over 250m², etc, cost about £9k all in before VAT reclaim. Heat pump companies are charging huge amounts and gearing it so basically the £7.5k grant is there pure profit.

3. Poor installs, drafty, poorly insulated houses and the gas / electric price disparity is fuelling a huge negative pressure for heat pumps.

4. I've seen huge numbers of people that changed from gas to heatpump because they were told it would be cheaper. A slight slide on sCOP from 3 to 2.5, means it's more expensive than gas. I've seen plenty of installs were people are getting sCOP of 2, or even 1.5. Again, down to poor installs, lack of understanding within the industry.

5. The quality of new build housing is shocking, with many examples of the above issues happening in new builds. Under sized pumps, running at too high flow temperatures, complicated zoning and controls, leading to poor COPs and huge bills.

6. Heat pumps are the only way to decarbonise heating systems.

In summary, existing housing stock is ****, new builds not much better, gas is too cheap, grant bandwagons aren't helping, hearpumps work when done right.

Great balanced view. We were looking at getting one as we already have solar panels but the heat pump was too big and we didn’t have the space.

 

[Frisp]

We built our house in 2020.

I did a lot of research and puts lots of thought in to our design. Our architectural technologist is passive house certified so we went in the project with a huge focus on insulation and energy efficiency.

We ended up with a 9kW heatpump, under door heating, load sof insulation.

It's amazing, it works perfectly and I wouldn't change it for the world. BUT... Gas would have been a cheaper install, and running costs would have been about the same.

There are a few issues which have been raised already that I see every day in the self build forum I'm on.

1. They are not cheaper to run than gas due to the fact that gas is too cheap in the UK.

2. The heatpump grants have attracted stawths of chancers who are doing poor installs and massively over charging. Our system for heat pump, 300l cylinder, buffer, controls, under floor heating over 250m², etc, cost about £9k all in before VAT reclaim. Heat pump companies are charging huge amounts and gearing it so basically the £7.5k grant is their pure profit.

3. Poor installs, drafty, poorly insulated houses and the gas / electric price disparity is fuelling a huge negative pressure for heat pumps.

4. I've seen huge numbers of people that changed from gas to heatpump because they were told it would be cheaper. A slight slide on sCOP from 3 to 2.5, means it's more expensive than gas. I've seen plenty of installs were people are getting sCOP of 2, or even 1.5. Again, down to poor installs, lack of understanding within the industry.

5. The quality of new build housing is shocking, with many examples of the above issues happening in new builds. Under sized pumps, running at too high flow temperatures, complicated zoning and controls, leading to poor COPs and huge bills.

6. Heat pumps are the only way to decarbonise heating systems.

In summary, existing housing stock is ****, new builds not much better, gas is too cheap, grant bandwagons aren't helping, heatpumps work when done right.

Agreed especially with the cowboy bit.
My mums house had a 25year old, electric heat storage boiler / storage tank runnjng 11 radiators. On what is an economy 7 type tariff
She qualified for all the grants etc so i dug into it all deeply.
I had the installers come round, spec up for an air source pump, solar etc.
me being me had done a lot of research and had a good idea of what the tech spec shoild be.
So i casually asked some relevant questions of the contractor
He insisted they woild fit a 22mm flow / return from pump to tank. I queried this a imdustry thinking was 28mm pipe for this part of any ASHP
I called his office and they said that no thats what mitsubishi recommend for that pump.
So me being me emailed mitsubishi and they said 28mm.
Also on my calcs and his numbers he over specked the size of the pump
In short what they were proposing would never have run efficiently
So i told em yo poke it.
What i now have is a flow stick electric , on demand wall mounted boiler in an Splan with a small tank for hot water. Teamed up with a Drayton wiser radiator controller ( smart valves) tuned to her lifestyle.
its a 3 bed semi in SW scotland, all electric its toasty warm and her standing order is £160/month
My point is beware the cowboy installer and do your research. But find a heating system that best fits your house. .

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We built our house in 2020.
I did a lot of research and puts lots of thought in to our design. Our architectural technologist is passive house certified so we went in the project with a huge focus on insulation and energy efficiency.
We ended up with a 9kW heat pump, under door heating, load sof insulation.
In summary, existing housing stock is ****, new builds not much better, gas is too cheap, grant bandwagons aren't helping, heat pumps work when done right

Thanks for posting nice to see some honest facts from someone who owns a heat pump

 

[Chippy_Tea]

its a 3 bed semi in SW scotland, all electric its toasty warm and her standing order is £160/month
My point is beware the cowboy installer and do your research. But find a heating system that best fits your house. .

Thanks for posting.