Hazelwoods Beer Improvement Project

[Hazelwood Brewery]

As a guide this is the highest score I’ve ever got for a beer from a qualified bjcp judge and it is for a beer (sent out in the Santa swap) that I’ve been improving over the last 5 years.

do not under estimate how hard it is to score north of 40 points.
View attachment 60901

Thanks for the sense check, I may come back to this for comfort!

 

[Leon103]

Got beaten to it about oxygen. It's a myth that it only effects hoppy beers and any good judge will be able to pick it up in a beer.

Also isn't north of 40, a best in show type beer? What scores are you getting now?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

O2 exposure and pickup should be a prime consideration for any beer you make.

Indeed. Also, reducing the pro-oxidative metal ions in the finished beer. I’ve been looking at mash hopping as a way of complexing metal ions and possibly slowing oxidation.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Got beaten to it about oxygen. It's a myth that it only effects hoppy beers and any good judge will be able to pick it up in a beer.

Also isn't north of 40, a best in show type beer? What scores are you getting now?

I understand it affects all beers but highly hopped beers are far more susceptible. The question though was do all commercial breweries do closed transfers and the answer is no.

Yes 40 is best of show territory and maybe it’s not attainable by me ever but why would I aim for less? I’ve only entered one BJCP comp and got 31 for that Mild I brewed. It was a first attempt so I was looking for feedback more than expecting a good place.

 

[Hoddy]

Indeed. Also, reducing the pro-oxidative metal ions in the finished beer. I’ve been looking at mash hopping as a way of complexing metal ions and possibly slowing oxidation.

Surely it’s better to just reduce/avoid all o2 pickup thus removing the need for strategies to slow the affects of o2?

 

[chillipickle]

I am still a complete noob at brewing, under 2 years, but the big improvement i made to my beer(all hoppy) is closed transfer via snubnose.Still so much to learn, even though doing water additionns.Need to get on RO water for another improvement.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Surely it’s better to just reduce/avoid all o2 pickup thus removing the need for strategies to slow the affects of o2?

I’m not trying to solve an oxidation issue, I’m just curious about the science.

Having read your BJCP scoresheet in the meantime it does look to me that you were harshly penalised on the flavour score.

 

[Clint]

It would be interesting to blind taste a winning beer..

 

[samale]

Keep the good work up Hazelwood. I will enjoy following your progress

 

[moto748]

This is fascinating stuff, but way, way, above my pay-grade! But like samale, I will watch with interest.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

This is fascinating stuff, but way, way, above my pay-grade! But like samale, I will watch with interest.

Actually I don’t think it is. Ask yourself, do you know what flavours you get from Maris Otter or how the flavours of Crystal 113 differ from Crystal 225? Do you know whether a malt tastes “toasty” or “roasty”? By using the hot steep method to produce some wort from a handful of grain and completing the malt flavour wheel you will start to get that understanding. By comparing your results with other people you’ll be training your senses to recognise and name flavours.

You don’t need all the kit shown for the hot steep method. I will for example be heating water in a pan and monitoring the temperature with a thermometer rather than buying a special kettle.

 

[moto748]

I am a novice compared to you and many of the other excellent brewers here, Hazelwood. And I'm sure I will continue to learn by comparing my beers to others brewed here, as I have already done. But I derive pleasure from brewing as I do, and the results thereof. But I'm not sure I want to involve myself as deeply as you are doing. But for you, already producing excellent beers, and looking to advance further, it's obviously a different story; all power to your elbow!

 

[Zorro]

Great thread and very informative.

I'm a novice in comparison, however it's a topic I have thought about and it's nice to get more of an understanding of how to dial things in. At the minute I'm still following recipes.

Randomly I was looking at a Canadian brewery, who give you all the versions of their recipes. Thinking why make the change....

https://www.halobrewery.com/beer

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Great thread and very informative.

I'm a novice in comparison, however it's a topic I have thought about and it's nice to get more of an understanding of how to dial things in. At the minute I'm still following recipes.

Randomly I was looking at a Canadian brewery, who give you all the versions of their recipes. Thinking why make the change....

https://www.halobrewery.com/

They have some great sounding beers!

 

[The Furnace Green Brewer]

Hi all,#
Me too I have held off brewing an 5.7% IPA, 70g of Challenger and 100g of goldings+ 20g in the secondary fermenter until Tuesday , working from home is great, as I want to plan each stage and record the process in writing, I only do extract brewing which produces very good results due to CJJ berry and the venerable David Line.
By the way I am a qualied Environmental Engineer so I will not be force cooling my wort, to much wasted water.

Happy brewing to all

 

[Leon103]

Hi all,#
Me too I have held off brewing an 5.7% IPA, 70g of Challenger and 100g of goldings+ 20g in the secondary fermenter until Tuesday , working from home is great, as I want to plan each stage and record the process in writing, I only do extract brewing which produces very good results due to CJJ berry and the venerable David Line.
By the way I am a qualied Environmental Engineer so I will not be force cooling my wort, to much wasted water.

Happy brewing to all

You could just recirculate a tub of water to chill

 

[foxy]

Do all commercial breweries do closed system pressure transfer of their beers or is it quite a specialised thing?

Most commercial tanks have a pressure rating of 15 PSI, when they transfer to the bright tank they cap the tank to get some carbonation into the beer before packaging. I did ask how they knew how much carbonation to add when bottling the guide didn't know but came and told me later they measure the volume of co2 before adding extra at bottling.

As a guide this is the highest score I’ve ever got for a beer from a qualified bjcp judge and it is for a beer (sent out in the Santa swap) that I’ve been improving over the last 5 years.

do not under estimate how hard it is to score north of 40 points.
View attachment 60901

Didn't you have 3 score sheets then the average taken?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’ve got most of the kit to start the malt sensory stuff but I did have to buy a thermos, funnel, and filter papers. The thermos and funnel have arrived so I’m just waiting on the size 6 filter papers which should arrive at the end of next week.

I’m going to start with base malts I think. I always have several regulars on my shelf: Maris Otter, Pilsner, Vienna, Munich, Golden Promise, Wheat malt.

If this whole approach works and my palate is good enough to differentiate the various flavours I’m thinking of using this malt sensory approach to select my house malts - for example buy a small quantity of Maris Otter from several producers and see if I have a preference. It seems odd to me now but I’ve actually never compared the same malt from several producers.

I’m quite keen now to get started.

 

[Flat Foot]

I was looking at this thread with interest this morning and will set aside some time to watch the videos and might try some of the tasting. I have a funnel, the same soup thermos you have and Hario V60 filter papers in abundance so it could be interesting! I think my wife would want to take part too.

I always struggle to describe flavours, if I taste something I'll know a flavour is there but struggle to say what it is. But if I read the tasting notes I can then say "yes, that's it!" Had it the other day with a grapefruit taste. I have heard you can train yourself to be better.

I know a few coffee super-tasters and their ability to do this is amazing, I think a bit does come down to the individual and their tastebuds, when I looked into it once some people are just more pre-disposed to be better at tasting. Swings and roundabouts, because if you're a super-taster you taste everything, whereas at least for normal folk your enjoyment isn't always ruined by a slight off-flavour.

Edit: the instructions for the hot steeping don't mention rinsing the filter paper. This is pretty standard for coffee brewing to get rid of any papery taste, not sure if the normal paper they use for this doesn't have that problem. But I'll probably give it a rinse anyway since I'd be using coffee filters.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I was looking at this thread with interest this morning and will set aside some time to watch the videos and might try some of the tasting. I have a funnel, the same soup thermos you have and Hario V60 filter papers in abundance so it could be interesting! I think my wife would want to take part too.

I always struggle to describe flavours, if I taste something I'll know a flavour is there but struggle to say what it is. But if I read the tasting notes I can then say "yes, that's it!" Had it the other day with a grapefruit taste. I have heard you can train yourself to be better.

I know a few coffee super-tasters and their ability to do this is amazing, I think a bit does come down to the individual and their tastebuds, when I looked into it once some people are just more pre-disposed to be better at tasting. Swings and roundabouts, because if you're a super-taster you taste everything, whereas at least for normal folk your enjoyment isn't always ruined by a slight off-flavour.

Edit: the instructions for the hot steeping don't mention rinsing the filter paper. This is pretty standard for coffee brewing to get rid of any papery taste, not sure if the normal paper they use for this doesn't have that problem. But I'll probably give it a rinse anyway since I'd be using coffee filters.

The BJCP video is the one you want, the last video presented by Lindsay Barr is a bit more generalised around the value and an approach to applying sensory analysis. I found it interesting but it’s not especially relevant to the malt sensory analysis. It’s great to hear your wife might also be interested, you can each discuss what you’re picking up - brilliant!

As I understand it being able to distinguish flavours is trainable. When we smell,taste,feel,and hear things we eat and drink our senses are bombarded with stimuli. Our brain does it’s best to hold all that information and match it to previous experiences in an attempt to match it with something we know. This all happens subconsciously and we are usually just aware that the mass of stimuli we just experienced matches another occasion when we ate something called a fruit salad. We can though focus on the components and identify individual flavours, the more you practice this conscious deconstruction the better you get.

I hadn’t considered rinsing the filter paper and there’s no mention of that in the method. It’s a good call because “papery” is a description of one form of oxidation.