hard water area

[LeithR]

it seams that the forum doesn't support tabs or even additional spaces in posts

You can use a "code" block...

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:thumb:

Thanks Calum - always learning!!

 

[Baldbrewer]

Using this forums calculator my Anglian water treatment should be 90ml crs :

But I err on the side of caution and use 80mls
:

 

[pittsy]

what type of crs do you use ? is it the sulfate tpye of acid ? your sulfate levels would be very high but if you like really hoppy beers this may be ok , max is 300 ppm and it would be close or over that with that much crs

 

[pittsy]

have a read here and download this https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files helps with the effect of crs and so on and here to explain what levels to aim for http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-4.html

 

[Baldbrewer]

I used the water treatment over on "Jim's" and get a CRS value of 23.4mls
Slightly confusing :wha: my last 3 brews I've added 80mls as per home brewforum water treatment calc.
Have to say all so far have tasted fine , hmmmmmm confused.com

 

[bunkerbrewer]

I used the water treatment over on "Jim's" and get a CRS value of 23.4mls
Slightly confusing :wha: my last 3 brews I've added 80mls as per home brewforum water treatment calc.
Have to say all so far have tasted fine , hmmmmmm confused.com

I use the forum calculator too (thanks THBF!). I've always read the alkalinity inputs as exclusive - like you're meant to enter CO3 or HCO3 or CaCO3...?

I end up with about 38ml CRS with higher alkalinity than yours:

 

[morethanworts]

...and has anyone noticed a real improvement through water treatment?...

 

[bunkerbrewer]

...and has anyone noticed a real improvement through water treatment?...

Yes :) With my London water, I was finding that AG stouts and porters were turning out brilliantly, but pale ales were never very good. It took a while to figure out the "off flavour" was astringency caused by the mash ph being off. Water treatment fixed that - I intentionally didn't make any other changes to my process.

I've also seen up to 4% increase in mash efficiency since using water treatment.

 

[EskiBrew]

I used the water treatment over on "Jim's" and get a CRS value of 23.4mls
Slightly confusing :wha: my last 3 brews I've added 80mls as per home brewforum water treatment calc.
Have to say all so far have tasted fine , hmmmmmm confused.com

I use the forum calculator too (thanks THBF!). I've always read the alkalinity inputs as exclusive - like you're meant to enter CO3 or HCO3 or CaCO3...?

The are mutually exclusive - you will see that it says if you have not entered a value for Carbonate (CO3) and also If you have not entered a value for (CO3) or a value for Alkalinity "as HCO3".

BB, If I enter your values into Jim's water calculator, specifying Alkalinity as 139 (as CaCO3) then I get results for CRS of 0.62 mg/l which in your 36 litres is 22.32mls total - not quite sure why you get 23.4mls :hmm:

Now if I enter your values into THBF calculator, putting 139 in the "Alkalinity as CaCO3" box but nothing in the "Carbonate (CO3)" and "Alkalinity as HCO3" then the THBF calculator gives you a value of 22.4mls (i.e. near enough the same value).

Going back a step to your original value of 290 for CO3, if I put your values into Jim's calculator and leave Alkalinity box set to 0 but instead put 290 into the box marked "Carbonate CO3", the calculator gives a value for CRS of 2.49 mg/l so in your 36 litres that makes 89.6mls.

Again using the THBF calculator with "Carbonate (CO3)" set to 290 and both "Alkalinity as HCO3" and "Alkalinity as CaCO3" left as zero, it gives a total CRS as 90.3mls (i.e. near enough the same value again).

What I am trying to say is that both calculators are giving the same values when you put the same information in :thumb:

If your water report has a value for Carbonate (CO3) then it is best to use that rather than any values for Alkalinity.
Hope this helps :

 

[morethanworts]

...and has anyone noticed a real improvement through water treatment?...

Yes :) With my London water, I was finding that AG stouts and porters were turning out brilliantly, but pale ales were never very good. It took a while to figure out the "off flavour" was astringency caused by the mash ph being off. Water treatment fixed that - I intentionally didn't make any other changes to my process.

I've also seen up to 4% increase in mash efficiency since using water treatment.

That's interesting to me. Sorry, I know there's a more advanced conversation going on here, but I always assumed the water may just be too hard or too soft for my beer, or at worst it may have a slight chlorine or sulphur taste. So to learn that there may be off-flavours as such is valuable.

My water board's info is here http://www.yorkshirewater.com/extra-ser ... =-0.476903 (click on 'What's in Your Water') but it doesn't seem to have all the fields required for THBF's calculator.

I'm only likely to mash a few grains in with bulk extract and hops, so maybe it still wouldn't matter too much in regards to off-flavours...

 

[bunkerbrewer]

I'm only likely to mash a few grains in with bulk extract and hops, so maybe it still wouldn't matter too much in regards to off-flavours...

Yep, you'll be fine with extract, no need to worry about that sort of water treatment. You still might benefit from a bit of Campden (k-meta) to dechlorinate your water if you're not doing so already.

 

[morethanworts]

I'm only likely to mash a few grains in with bulk extract and hops, so maybe it still wouldn't matter too much in regards to off-flavours...

Yep, you'll be fine with extract, no need to worry about that sort of water treatment. You still might benefit from a bit of Campden (k-meta) to dechlorinate your water if you're not doing so already.

Brilliant, thanks! Particularly because I bought some Campden tablets this week, thinking I would at least use those.

 

[EskiBrew]

My water board's info is here http://www.yorkshirewater.com/extra-ser ... =-0.476903 (click on 'What's in Your Water') but it doesn't seem to have all the fields required for THBF's calculator.

If you do ever want to get into it in more detail, your water report is actually pretty complete - on that page you linked to, click on the Download the annual report. It gives all the parameters required :thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

My water board's info is here http://www.yorkshirewater.com/extra-ser ... =-0.476903 (click on 'What's in Your Water') but it doesn't seem to have all the fields required for THBF's calculator.

If you do ever want to get into it in more detail, your water report is actually pretty complete - on that page you linked to, click on the Download the annual report. It gives all the parameters required :thumb:

Thanks, I'd discovered that more extensive pdf in between my last posts, but we are on the edge of the shaded area on the map so I've left a message with Yorks Water to check things out.

 

[Baldbrewer]

Thanks Eskimobob :thumb: I can see clearly now that I was adding too much information.
:

 

[Daveg]

850? Nothing in the UK is anywhere near half that!

Burton is indeed very hard at 244ppm
http://www.south-staffs-water.co.uk/you ... rdness.asp

Very hard water starts at 200ppm.

Our local water is really hard at around 350ppm. It's amongst the hardest in the UK (Bedfordshire) I wouldn't use it to brew beer again. I put my aquarium heater in a trub with tap water and it furred up in a week.

I would estimate that even if I clean my kettle with vinegar every 3 months, I get through a decent brand kettle every 2 years. In a house I owned where we used the immersion heater a lot, we replaced it every 3 years.

Our water is the hardest in the country apparently in Mid-Suffolk , over 360. Cheap Kettles last a matter of months, I treat my water with roughly 50ml of CRS depending on the beer but I only brew darker beers anyway. I did brew with mineral water once but I didn't think there was much noticeable difference to warrent the extra expense, that and I'm tight! :whistle:

 

[Martin Goodrich]

i live in a really hard water area, even after we had a new boiler fitter the hot water can be very murky with the limescale

would this have any impact on the taste quality of my brews?

they dont seem to taste any differet, but just curious that if i done everything identical but had soft water would i notice any difference/

I source my water from Spotless Water in the UK. Ostensibly they supply pure RO water for window cleaners but it is perfectly good for brewing purposes. I typically use 60 litres of the water on a brew day which at 0.04 p/litre works out at around £2.40; much cheaper than bottled water. I don't know whether our friends outside of the UK have a facility like this but in the UK Spotless Water have a large number of 24 hour water dispensary stations open to the public.

Clearly then you need to add your salts to 'Burtonise' it to make it suitable for mashing etc and to that end I would recommend a book by John J. Palmer and Colin Kaminski called "Water: a comprehensive guide for Brewers".

My experience has been that using RO water has taken my beer to the next level.