Gushing!

[CeeJayCee]

I’ve been brewing with kits for a year, and never had any problems.

I’ve now made 4 all grain brews:

1) Pale Ale
2) witbier
3) rasp witbier (half of the witbier wort)
4) oatmeal stout

and 1 and 4 have been very carbonated. 2 & 3 were fine.
If I really chill the bottles down in the fridge, they pour ok, but still pretty lively.

To bottle I siphoned to a bottling bucket, adding sugar dissolved in some of the wort, and then used a bottling wand to bottle.

I’m about to bottle David Heaths Verdant IPA and I’ll try without siphoning to another bucket.

But what has gone wrong with beers 1 & 4?

 

[CeeJayCee]

I should add that I use PET bottles.

One of the Oatmeal Stouts seems to have blown the seal and leaked out half a bottle.

 

[The Baron]

It could be quite a few issues that changing things one at a time sometimes maybe the way. The first thing is usually bottling too soon when it has not fermented out enough or if it is just some bottle in a batch it could be that the sugar has not been mixed and dissolve in the bottling bucket

 

[CeeJayCee]

I’m pretty certain fermentation had finished. I usually take a hydrometer reading a few days apart and ensure they are the same. Should I be leaving it longer?

To make the priming solution, I usually take some of the beer in a pan, mix in the sugar and heat until dissolved. I then pour into the bottling bucket once I have a small amount of beer in there and I try to get a whirlpool like motion going by aiming the siphon around the bucket. Obviously I try my best to sanitise everything!

I’m hoping that removing the bottling bucket and siphon will help me eliminate some of the possible sources.

According to Brewfather I used the following concentrations of sugar roughly:

1) 3.5g per 500ml
2) 4.5g per 500ml
3) 3.6g per 500ml
4) 3.7g per 500ml

 

[The Baron]

When you say fermentation has finished what are the FG's and how long do you ferment for before bottling?

 

[CeeJayCee]

FGs and fermentation times were:

1) 1.010 (S-04) 11 days
2) 1.010 (M21) 20 days
4) 1.010 (M21) 20 days + probably another 5 with fruit (notes are missing!)
4) 1.011 (S-04) 19 days (incl 3 day cold crash)

 

[The Baron]

Well all seems well there CJC, are your Fv temps high enough near the end of Fermentation as they do seem low enough FG's but maybe a slightly warmer temp when using SO4 yeast may just drop it a degree more on the FV or two as it is the same yeast you that has caused the issue but as I said it looks fine to me.
Or maybe just drop the sugar amounts with that yeast too

 

[starseeker]

I had some problems with gushers ,
It seems it was my cleaning regime of my bottles, i now soak them for at least twelve hours in a solution
a Oxy and Chemclean and then sanitise on the day of bottling and i now have no problems .

 

[CeeJayCee]

That’s a good point about the S-04 being the problem. I didn’t raise the temp at the end of fermentation, I just tried to keep it constant.

I’m about to bottle an IPA using Verdant IPA yeast. It was ramped from 19-22C over 3 days. And I’m now trying to cold crash it.

It’s down at 1.010. I’ll probably bottle it tomorrow. Is it worth me trying bottling straight from the FV? Some online reading made me worried about infection, but the “bad” beer all tastes fine to me!

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[CeeJayCee]

I had some problems with gushers ,
It seems it was my cleaning regime of my bottles, i now soak them for at least twelve hours in a solution
a Oxy and Chemclean and then sanitise on the day of bottling and i now have no problems .

I’ve been cleaning with hot water immediately after using and recapping. I then rinse with ChemSan before I fill them. I sometimes use sodium percarbonate no rinse cleaner instead of chemsan, but I can’t remember which batches.

Maybe I should try a stronger cleaner before the chemsan?

 

[starseeker]

That is exactly what i was doing, you will realise when you soak them overnight how dirty they are ,

 

[The Baron]

I bottle from the Fv and do not use a secondary so as to reduce oxygenation of the beer as you have to transfer and mix the sugar in it by stirring.
If you decide to bottle from the Fv you will need a funnel for the bottle neck and a accurate way of being consistent with the sugar amounts, I use different teaspoon and wipe the back of a knife over them so as to get a level teaspoon. As I said you can use different teaspoons as they are not all the same and weigh the amount for each one so that you have a variant amount for different carbonation levels.
It may be worth a try to see if you get a better result and use various amounts in a brew to test which is best for SO4.
Ps you would need some jewellery scales not expensive off Fleabay

 

[foxy]

FGs and fermentation times were:

1) 1.010 (S-04) 11 days
2) 1.010 (M21) 20 days
4) 1.010 (M21) 20 days + probably another 5 with fruit (notes are missing!)
4) 1.011 (S-04) 19 days (incl 3 day cold crash)

They look finished to me.

According to Brewfather I used the following concentrations of sugar roughly:

1) 3.5g per 500ml
2) 4.5g per 500ml
3) 3.6g per 500ml
4) 3.7g per 500ml

You are cold crashing, is Brewfather taking into account the temperature of the beer and the amount of dissolved co2?

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...brewing-tools/bottle-conditioning-calculator/

 

[dad_of_jon]

I've found m21 and m20 to not attenuate as much as most of their other yeasts so maybe your s-04 beers just carried on a bit longer after bottling.

 

[Empty bottle]

I’m pretty certain fermentation had finished. I usually take a hydrometer reading a few days apart and ensure they are the same. Should I be leaving it longer?

To make the priming solution, I usually take some of the beer in a pan, mix in the sugar and heat until dissolved. I then pour into the bottling bucket once I have a small amount of beer in there and I try to get a whirlpool like motion going by aiming the siphon around the bucket. Obviously I try my best to sanitise everything!

I’m hoping that removing the bottling bucket and siphon will help me eliminate some of the possible sources.

According to Brewfather I used the following concentrations of sugar roughly:

1) 3.5g per 500ml
2) 4.5g per 500ml
3) 3.6g per 500ml
4) 3.7g per 500ml

I would try reducing the sugar by 1g per 500ml as i found 2g - 2.5g per 500ml for ale is a good amount for me.

 

[CraigInTheCorn]

You may have sources other than the bottles for contamination with something like Brett or perhaps diastaticus. Fermenter, bottling bucket, bottling wand and tubing, to name a few.

 

[CeeJayCee]

That is exactly what i was doing, you will realise when you soak them overnight how dirty they are ,

Oxi cleaner purchased. I’ll use it on the bottles before i sanitise them.

I bottle from the Fv and do not use a secondary so as to reduce oxygenation of the beer as you have to transfer and mix the sugar in it by stirring.
If you decide to bottle from the Fv you will need a funnel for the bottle neck and a accurate way of being consistent with the sugar amounts, I use different teaspoon and wipe the back of a knife over them so as to get a level teaspoon. As I said you can use different teaspoons as they are not all the same and weigh the amount for each one so that you have a variant amount for different carbonation levels.
It may be worth a try to see if you get a better result and use various amounts in a brew to test which is best for SO4.
Ps you would need some jewellery scales not expensive off Fleabay

Jewellery scales arriving today. I’ll use them for measuring per bottle sugar.

They look finished to me.


You are cold crashing, is Brewfather taking into account the temperature of the beer and the amount of dissolved co2?

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...brewing-tools/bottle-conditioning-calculator/

I’m having difficulty with this - I find a lot of conflicting information.

My Verdant IPA which I’m about to bottle was fermented at 19C, then ramped to 22C over 3 days. I’ve now cold crashed for a couple of days. Which temp do I put in the calculators?
Some say 22C, some say the cold crash temp. ?!

I would try reducing the sugar by 1g per 500ml as i found 2g - 2.5g per 500ml for ale is a good amount for me.

Thanks. I’ll try that.

You may have sources other than the bottles for contamination with something like Brett or perhaps diastaticus. Fermenter, bottling bucket, bottling wand and tubing, to name a few.

Yes I was worried about that. I think the fermenter and bottling bucket are ok, I gave them a good clean and sanitise. I’m not convinced about the taps, tubing or bottling wand. I’m planning to bottle straight from the FV using a bottling wand this time to reduce possible contamination sites.

Is it possible to take apart a tap to clean? I can unscrew front and back to remove it from the bucket and take out the “handle” part. But getting actually inside seems tricky.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Is it possible to take apart a tap to clean? I can unscrew front and back to remove it from the bucket and take out the “handle” part. But getting actually inside seems tricky.

Is depends on the tap, but whatever you can do it take it apart (and off your fermenter) will be good enough. You can then clean it as best you can before giving it a good soak in oxyclean, then sanitiser.

I also bottle straight from the fermenter (bottom tap, so no need for siphon tubing for me). It eliminates the intermediary stage and reduces (though not eliminates) the risk of oxidation/infection.

Were all bottles of batches 1 and 4 overcarbed, and all bottles of batches 2 and 3 ok? If so, then it's unlikely to be your bottle cleaning regime. If the carbonation of different bottles within a batch varies, then bottle cleaning could be the source with some bottles being clean/sanitised "enough" and others not.

 

[foxy]

I’m having difficulty with this - I find a lot of conflicting information.

My Verdant IPA which I’m about to bottle was fermented at 19C, then ramped to 22C over 3 days. I’ve now cold crashed for a couple of days. Which temp do I put in the calculators?
Some say 22C, some say the cold crash temp. ?!

As you take the temperature down more co2 dissolves into the beer, that is why the calculators show less sugar at a lower temperature. What you also have to be aware of though is that the movement of the wort into bottling bucket then into bottle will force out some co2 from the solution so you have to make an allowance for that. I cold crash to about 1.5 - 2C I add for an ale about 2-2.5 gram per litre

 

[Agentgonzo]

My Verdant IPA which I’m about to bottle was fermented at 19C, then ramped to 22C over 3 days. I’ve now cold crashed for a couple of days. Which temp do I put in the calculators?
Some say 22C, some say the cold crash temp. ?!

I don't know the answer to this (and it may be hard to give a definitive answer), but I can explain the theory.

As you ferment the beer, CO2 gradually dissolves in it until it reaches saturation point. The colder the beer, the higher the saturation point (more dissolved CO2). But just cold crashing your beer doesn't instantly get more CO2 into solution. It needs to come from somewhere. It comes from continued fermentation or the CO2 in the headspace going back into solution, but I don't know how quickly it happens. If it is continuing to ferment during cold crash, the CO2 generated will help it reach saturation point faster. But if it's finished fermenting, it won't (and this depends entirely on when you cold crash).

Furthermore, when you raise the temperature, it will lose some dissolved CO2 (as the saturation point drops), but this won't happen immediately and it'll be oversaturated for a bit. How long, I don't know (but the difference between 19 and 22 here will be tiny anyway)

I am guessing that brewfather will assume your beer is saturated with CO2 at the temperature you set, but this may not be the case.

But certainly the safe bet would be to use the cold crash temperature when calculating priming sugar.