Guiness Clone?

[Begbie]

How did this go? Is it like Guinness?

Not quite. It looked like Guinness, as in, it was black and had a white head, but not a creamy white head, more fluffy! It wasn't thick and creamy like Guinness either. However, it did have the slight bitterness and overall was a good pint. It had to be well chilled though, as it foamed like a volcanic foamy thing when opened. A careful pour was required too, to prevent a head that took up more space than the beer! A friend made the mistake of trying to down a bottle of it once, not realising how carbonated it was. A foaming nose was one of the results!

I followed the recipe exactly, so as I said, next time I'm going to chuck in some cocoa nibs, as per advice that I found on this forum, to give it more body and flavour.

 

[foxbat]

Not quite. It looked like Guinness, as in, it was black and had a white head, but not a creamy white head, more fluffy! It wasn't thick and creamy like Guinness either. However, it did have the slight bitterness and overall was a good pint. It had to be well chilled though, as it foamed like a volcanic foamy thing when opened. A careful pour was required too, to prevent a head that took up more space than the beer! A friend made the mistake of trying to down a bottle of it once, not realising how carbonated it was. A foaming nose was one of the results!

I followed the recipe exactly, so as I said, next time I'm going to chuck in some cocoa nibs, as per advice that I found on this forum, to give it more body and flavour.

I suspect the creamy finish you're looking for can only be properly achieved with a 'stout tap' and a nitro mix for serving.

 

[Begbie]

I suspect the creamy finish you're looking for can only be properly achieved with a 'stout tap' and a nitro mix for serving.

Yeah. I'm fine with the fluffy head though!

 

[An Ankoù]

So the picture I'm beginning to get about 20th century Guinness is that they have managed to turn the unscrupulous practices of some other breweries and publicans into a virtue. I'm talking about tipping the slops and returns into the Mild cask in some pubs and remixing returned stock with the new at Watney's. Squeezing the last drop of beer out of harvested yeast and mixing old "sour" (ie "gone off") beer with the otherwise "uninteresting" new beer sound complete blarney to me! I don't buy it.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I get a decent head on my kegged stouts by using CO2 with the stout spout insert pictured below. Just pops into the tap spout. Not quite the same as if using the nitro mix but good enough for me.

 

[Clint]

Wasn't porter rebrewed "off" beer originally?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So the picture I'm beginning to get about 20th century Guinness is that they have managed to turn the unscrupulous practices of some other breweries and publicans into a virtue. I'm talking about tipping the slops and returns into the Mild cask in some pubs and remixing returned stock with the new at Watney's.

Watney's is the wrong frame of reference. Think instead of the porters of the 19th century, which were typically made of 2/3 fresh beer and 1/3 stock beer that had been aged for a year a so in huge vats like these ones at Barclay Perkins :

The high-low pour is effectively recreating that on the bar. The fact that it provides a way to effectively extend the life of cask beer is obviously helpful, but if the result tastes good then who cares?

Squeezing the last drop of beer out of harvested yeast and mixing old "sour" (ie "gone off") beer with the otherwise "uninteresting" new beer sound complete blarney to me! I don't buy it.

Personal disbelief is no argument. I can say that I don't believe that 2+2=4, it doesn't mean I'm correct. Follow that link to Boak & Bailey, who are respected beer historians quoting original Guinness manuals. What don't you buy?

 

[An Ankoù]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here. I'm not suggesting that any of these practices didn't happen. I'm speculating whether what in other circumstances would be dodgy practice, hence the reference to some of the more "professional" aspects of Watneys, has turned out fortuitously for Guinness. Yes, I've read all that stuff and more. B and B doesn't add much to what was already common knowledge except an, apparently, authentic brewing manual of which we get a few snippets, which tell us nothing we don't already know. My contention is that the practices themselves are not by design but profit driven. It's not an argument, it's opinion, and most likely unverifiable unlike your arithmetical example, which can be verified.
Take it or leave it- I think "classic" Guinness is the result of business decisions rather than brewing excellence.
I may change my mind later or not.

 

[An Ankoù]

Bearing in mind that the OP wants to make a kit or extract Guinness and we're talking now about A.G. and historical methods, we've probably drifted away from the topic a bit. Except to say, that for many brewers, Guinness is a kit in that foreign breweries make a local beer and then flavour it with Guinness concentrate in much the same way a Coca Cola used to be produced. I'm pretty fond of the Nigerian version of this mixture, which, for a while was sold in small bottles in Tesco as Foreign Extra Stout.
My memories of Guinness in the 70s and 80s is that it was an acquired taste (readily acquired in my case) and that it had the reputation of giving the drinker a bad case of the threepenny bits the morning after a session. I think we can see why from some of the comments on this thread from another forum, especially the comment from Martyn Cornell, which claims that all sorts of returns and rejects went back into the beer.
Here it is: https://www.*************.com/post/...led-9686643?pid=1303604940&highlight=guinness
Where the stars replace "homebrewinguk".

CHIPPY. I don't know why the link has been partly starred out. If we're not allowed to link to other forums then please take it out. Thanks.

 

[Hudson1984]

Ah it's all interesting so no harm done :)

I am pretty keen to go AG in the new year anyway.

I've ordered the st peters cream stout kit and will be putting that on ASAP, then that's my kits done hopefully gives me enough booze to give AG a bash next.if I can convince the wife that the cost of the gear is worth it

 

[foxbat]

if I can convince the wife that the cost of the gear is worth it

It's absolutely worth it times a million. You'll be brewing beer that's better quality and far cheaper than you can buy in the pub and the gear will pay for itself over time.

 

[Hudson1984]

See i'm going for the "in for a penny in for a pound" route - I've got the brew fridge, got a kegerator. So may as well finish off with an AG setup haha.

I've part converted the garage into our bar, just need to sort the heat and cooling and we're away. We go out there every friday for a night at the pub, she's slowly getting into darts too so it's becoming a well used room. Once lockdowns done, i'm hoping we get some guests who use it too - or try joining the local homebrew club, at least we'll be comfortable on a brew day.

 

[An Ankoù]

if I can convince the wife that the cost of the gear is worth it

Even better, if the good lady had been struggling to thing of a suitable Christmas pressie, you might be helping her out!

 

[Clint]

Just had a delivery from CML..in it,amongst other stuff ,there's 100g of citra and 100g of galaxy....I pointed out to Mrs Clint that those two packets were going in one batch of beer...her comments...
"That'll put the cost of your beer up..."
They know what it costs....cheaper than the pub!

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Even better, if the good lady had been struggling to thing of a suitable Christmas pressie, you might be helping her out!

+1
After a brewing a dozen or so kits, some good some not so, I tried AG following the instructions in the “Have a go at simple all grain” thread on this forum. That was 18 months ago and I’ve not done another kit, nor bought a commercial beer since.

 

[Hudson1984]

yea the only thing stopping me doing that is buying the stockpots lol!

I hate buying something to then replace it soon after, I'd rather jump into brewzilla and give that a bash from the off.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

yea the only thing stopping me doing that is buying the stockpots lol!

I hate buying something to then replace it soon after, I'd rather jump into brewzilla and give that a bash from the off.

I actually bought a Peco boiler and did BIAB. Swapped that out for a Brewzilla last month but really can’t say I’ve gained that much. If I were to go back and do it all again I would have bought a SS digiboiler instead of the plastic Peco initially and did BIAB in that. I can’t say the Brewzilla adds too much for the extra £200 odd quid.

 

[Hudson1984]

Yeah I was looking at the digiboiler in my proposed setup - so you recon I should just start there and go BIAB for a while? then move to AG after a bit of practise?

 

[foxbat]

Yeah I was looking at the digiboiler in my proposed setup - so you recon I should just start there and go BIAB for a while? then move to AG after a bit of practise?

BIAB is AG. It's your choice whether you do AG using the BIAB or 3 vessel method. Both will brew you the same quality beer.

 

[Hudson1984]

Ahhh gotcha (did wonder what the difference was)

ok so that's a definite place to start then for sure. Will have to read up on BIAB and get the digiboiler