Greggs vegan sausage rolls

[Chippy_Tea]

I have read conflicting views on whether a vegan diet is healthy and without supplements its not.

This is very cut down description see the article link -

Vitamin B12​

We need B12 to maintain healthy nerve cells, produce DNA – the body’s genetic material – and it works closely with folic acid to make red blood cells. It also helps iron to work better in the body and is essential for a healthy immune system as well as helping to regulate mood. It really is an important vitamin!

Vitamin D​

We need vitamin D for healthy bones, teeth, muscles and other essential functions. Known as the sunshine vitamin, it’s made through the action of sunlight on skin. UK levels of vitamin D deficiency are high, particularly among people with darker skin and for everyone during the winter months. In spring and summer, most people in the UK can make enough through daily exposure to sunlight for five to 25 minutes – this short timespan minimises the risks of sunburn and skin cancer. The lighter your skin, the less exposure you require and ‘little and often’ is the best approach for most people.

Calcium​

A healthy vegan diet, rich in wholegrain foods, pulses, nuts and seeds, will cover your needs for this mineral. The best sources include tofu (made with calcium sulphate), fortified vegan breakfast cereal, plant-based milks fortified with calcium, dried figs, kale, sesame seeds and tahini, tempeh, wholemeal bread, baked beans, butternut squash, nuts (particularly almonds and Brazil nuts), spring greens and watercress. While spinach, chard and beet greens do contain calcium, they also contain a substance called oxalate, which blocks calcium absorption. Calcium is more available from low-oxalate green vegetables such as kale, broccoli and bok choy. The calcium they contain is absorbed about twice as well as the calcium in cow’s milk, plus they contain fibre, folate, iron and antioxidants, which you won’t find in a pint of milk!

Iodine​

We need iodine for healthy thyroid function and to help regulate how energy is produced and used in our bodies. The dairy industry likes to warn how vegans miss out on iodine by shunning cow’s milk. The truth is that iodine is not naturally found in dairy milk but comes from supplements fed to cattle and iodine-containing disinfectants that are used to clean teats and udders.

Omega-3s​

Our bodies can’t produce essential omega-3 fats so we need some in our diet. They are a part of our cell membranes and affect cell functions throughout the entire body. They help us produce hormones and control inflammation and may lower the risk of heart disease. One or two teaspoons of flaxseed oil daily, or a handful of walnuts and a tablespoon of ground flaxseeds, can provide all you need but if you want to take a vegan supplement, look for EPA/DHA on the label and choose one produced from algae – the same place that fish get their omega-3s from.

https://viva.org.uk/health/health-articles/do-vegans-need-supplements/

 

[fury_tea]

What other people feed their kids is up to them though

No it’s not they have to ensure their children are healthy .

That's my sentiment entirely. A vegan diet can be healthy, a diet containing meat diet can be unhealthy.

 

[RichardM]

As someone who is a meat eater, we have 2/3 veg mains per week and 2/3 seafood meals per week and if someone does not eat cheese I feel sorry for them. However being a Vegan is a choice for adults not children so they shouldn’t impose a diet like that on kids.

Post deleted - Admin.

Please don't bring religion into this food thread if you want to discuss your views on religion please open a thread here -

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/forums/political-controversial-discussions.95/

 

[fury_tea]

I have read conflicting views on whether a vegan diet is healthy and without supplements its not.

This is very cut down description see the article link -

Vitamin B12​

We need B12 to maintain healthy nerve cells, produce DNA – the body’s genetic material – and it works closely with folic acid to make red blood cells. It also helps iron to work better in the body and is essential for a healthy immune system as well as helping to regulate mood. It really is an important vitamin!

Vitamin D​

We need vitamin D for healthy bones, teeth, muscles and other essential functions. Known as the sunshine vitamin, it’s made through the action of sunlight on skin. UK levels of vitamin D deficiency are high, particularly among people with darker skin and for everyone during the winter months. In spring and summer, most people in the UK can make enough through daily exposure to sunlight for five to 25 minutes – this short timespan minimises the risks of sunburn and skin cancer. The lighter your skin, the less exposure you require and ‘little and often’ is the best approach for most people.

Calcium​

A healthy vegan diet, rich in wholegrain foods, pulses, nuts and seeds, will cover your needs for this mineral. The best sources include tofu (made with calcium sulphate), fortified vegan breakfast cereal, plant-based milks fortified with calcium, dried figs, kale, sesame seeds and tahini, tempeh, wholemeal bread, baked beans, butternut squash, nuts (particularly almonds and Brazil nuts), spring greens and watercress. While spinach, chard and beet greens do contain calcium, they also contain a substance called oxalate, which blocks calcium absorption. Calcium is more available from low-oxalate green vegetables such as kale, broccoli and bok choy. The calcium they contain is absorbed about twice as well as the calcium in cow’s milk, plus they contain fibre, folate, iron and antioxidants, which you won’t find in a pint of milk!

Iodine​

We need iodine for healthy thyroid function and to help regulate how energy is produced and used in our bodies. The dairy industry likes to warn how vegans miss out on iodine by shunning cow’s milk. The truth is that iodine is not naturally found in dairy milk but comes from supplements fed to cattle and iodine-containing disinfectants that are used to clean teats and udders.

Omega-3s​

Our bodies can’t produce essential omega-3 fats so we need some in our diet. They are a part of our cell membranes and affect cell functions throughout the entire body. They help us produce hormones and control inflammation and may lower the risk of heart disease. One or two teaspoons of flaxseed oil daily, or a handful of walnuts and a tablespoon of ground flaxseeds, can provide all you need but if you want to take a vegan supplement, look for EPA/DHA on the label and choose one produced from algae – the same place that fish get their omega-3s from.

https://viva.org.uk/health/health-articles/do-vegans-need-supplements/

From the article you linked: "All major health bodies agree; a well-panned (sic) vegan diet can provide all you need while lowering the risk of all the big killers – obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer. However, we do need to pay attention to a few key nutrients to ensure we are getting the best out of our diet."

Most breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 and iron etc, as are loads of vegan foods. Most vegans take supplements anyway, and there's nothing wrong with that. I take Vitamin D every day after a recent blood test showed me as slightly deficient (working from home and British sun). Again, I'm not vegan myself and don't plan on turning any time soon but you can't deny the fact that it can be a healthy lifestyle (as much as any diet can be healthy/unhealthy). Anecdotally, every vegetarian/vegan I know, knows more about nutrition and balanced diets and healthy living than the average person.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Most breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 and iron etc, as are loads of vegan foods. Most vegans take supplements anyway, and there's nothing wrong with that.

You are entitled to you views on this and obviously know more about it than me but I don't think its the place of parents to decide what their kids eat before they are old enough to make that choice for themselves, having to give them pills to put back the stuff they are missing from their diet because of your life choice doesn't seem right to me.

 

[fury_tea]

You are entitled to you views on this and obviously know more about it than me but I don't think its the place of parents to decide what their kids eat before they are old enough to make that choice for themselves, having to give them pills to put back the stuff they are missing from their diet because of your life choice doesn't seem right to me.

This is the reason why we decided not to make that choice for our child. I know I am playing devil's advocate because it's not my view exactly, but i do feel it is absolutely the place of adults to make those kinds of choices for their kids, so long as they're not harmful. Here's a thought experiment to try and explain what I mean: some vegan people see animals as having feelings, souls, a will to live etc, and killing animals to eat them brings up similar feelings as something like cannibalism does for us (meat is murder etc). If you woke up one day and found that the world had turned cannibal, but you yourself weren't, would you feed the soilent green to you children, just because everyone else was doing it? It's an extreme example I know, and not a nice image, but this is definitely how some vegans think.

As long as the kids are healthy, I don't see what the problem with them taking supplements is. As I say, most of our kids (and us) are taking supplements every day in the form of breakfast cereals and other things like enriched flour, orange juice with added vitamins etc etc.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I agree with what you say but, take cows if you don't milk them i believe they die ( i could be wrong ) which is cruel so do you milk them and chuck the milk away which seems daft to me, i have a nephew the same age as my eldest boy 35, he does not speak to his mother he disowned her when he was 18 after deciding all his childhood ailments were down to her and her vegan views which she forced on him as a kid, when we had family get togethers she would not come to our house because my wife and i would not kowtow to her our policy of meat is on the menu but you don't have to eat it if you want vegan bring your own and cook it by all means which we thought was fair

 

[fury_tea]

take cows if you don't milk them i believe they die ( i could be wrong ) which is cruel so do you milk them and chuck the milk away which seems daft to me,

Not all cows, though. Dairy cows are the result of selective breeding, they produce 8x the amount of milk as "natural" cows. As far as I know they also need to be impregnated to start producing milk, and then the calves are taken from them and either culled if they are male, or if they're females sold on or raised to be the next generation. If the whole world went vegan overnight (or everyone suddenly became massively lactose intolerant), I guess, yes, we would have to throw the milk down the drain, but there would be no need for dairy cows any more, so they would no longer be bred in the massive numbers that they are now, eventually dying off and I suppose we would be left with the heritage/natural cows who just produce the right amount of milk for their calves.

if you want vegan bring your own and cook it by all means which we thought was fair

I think that's fair. My family found it hard at first when my wife went vegan. My mum was like the nan from The Royal Family "can she have wafer thin ham?", and we'd just bring something with us to avoid them having to specially buy something. These days they always have a few bits in the freezer like some vegan sausages or something. My mum gets excited to tell us that she's found a vegan chick'n pie in Tesco, but still sometimes gets it wrong and buys a cheese bake or something with egg in thinking it's vegan.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

some vegan people see animals as having feelings, souls, a will to live etc, and killing animals to eat them brings up similar feelings as something like cannibalism does for us (meat is murder etc).

This is going to sound strange as i eat most meat at the butchers, I never eat lamb i see them in the fields around here running and jumping everyone loves to see them then at 10 weeks old we kill them and eat them.

Given the variation between different production systems, breeds and regions the age of lambs at slaughter varies widely from as young as 10 weeks of age to over 12 months but it is assumed that on average a UK lamb will be between 6 and 7 months old when slaughtered.

 

[fury_tea]

This is going to sound strange as i eat most meat at the butchers, I never eat lamb i see them in the fields around here running and jumping everyone loves to see them then at 10 weeks old we kill them and eat them.

I had an argument with my dad about similar a while back. We were discussing different cultures and how in some countries eating dog, cat, snake, frog, toad, monkey etc is considered normal. My dad is very meat and 2 veg: chicken, lamb, beef, pork, maybe a bit of seafood and that's it. I said I'd try anything really, I'm not squeamish. My dad hit the roof when I said I'd try dog. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going out of my way to try it, but if I could be sure it's a farmed animal and not a stolen pet for example, then I don't see the difference between that and any other animal you choose to eat. Take pigs, they are cute, affectionate, intelligent (maybe even more so than dogs). The only difference is their role in our society as "man's best friend" vs "food". I find it a bit hypocritical that people can switch their emotions off for one animal over another.

I have a story about this actually, my friend growing up had 3 pigs in his back garden. All very cute, funny, they would play fetch, roll over for belly rubs etc. One day I went round and there were only 2 pigs, I enquired about what happened to the 3rd and his dad, with a big grin said follow me to the garage. In there was a big chest freezer full of chops, sausages, bacon etc. He offered me to take some home but I declined at the time (I was maybe 14?), horrified that he'd killed his pet like that. Turns out they were never really "pets" in the normal sense, he just raised them until they got so big then had them slaughtered.

Not having a go at you here by the way, you make the choices you want to make, and that's up to you. But for me, lamb is maybe my favourite meat, and I eat it knowing that a cute animal has died for me to enjoy it.

 

[Clint]

I wonder why lamb is so expensive.

 

[Appleton Brews]

I wonder why lamb is so expensive.

Probably because they need a lot of space and are not factory farmed.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I remember on holiday at a heaven site in Brittany, we went for a meal and i had snails, there was an English family sat opposite us, anyway the waiter came over and asked if i could sit with my back to them as it was making the women i presumed wife uncomfortoble i pointed to an empty table near the back yeah they actually moved

 

[fury_tea]

I remember on holiday at a heaven site in Brittany, we went for a meal and i had snails, there was an English family sat opposite us, anyway the waiter came over and asked if i could sit with my back to them as it was making the women i presumed wife uncomfortoble i pointed to an empty table near the back yeah they actually moved

I always said I drew the line at fois gras, because it's basically animal torture. Then in France one year a relative brought some fresh fois gras liver, and some food gras paté. A few wines in I decided to try it. Both were amazing, buttery, smooth, very delicate but flavourful. I have tried it now, and I don't plan on having it again, but man I wish it wasn't so cruel to produce.

 

[Druss]

It seems my view on eating particular meats isn't so odd after all then

I'm a meat eater (I don't eat a lot of meat but regularly have at least some each week), my wife and daughter are vegetarian and my son will eat fish on occasion but he's mostly veggie too.

There's five meats I categorically won't eat:

Cat (I've had many cats as pets in my time, the idea of eating cat doesn't remotely appeal to me).
Duck (I used to eat duck regularly but was given an orphaned duckling when an acquaintance found several on a roadside next to their lifeless mother, after raising her I couldn't eat duck again).
Molluscs (particularly snails, mussels, cockles etc. I'm not eating something that looks like it's been coughed up).
Offal (with the exception of the occasional late night hot dog in a fog of beer, things that fall out of an animal when it's poked hard enough shall not grace my table!).
Amphibians (no frogs here guv'nor!).

 

[Clint]

I used to eat tripe every week as a youngster. With pepper,vinegar and bread. Not had it for years but the thought doesn't put me off now at all.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Molluscs (particularly snails, mussels, cockles etc. I'm not eating something that looks like it's been coughed up)

Funny we turn our noses up at eating snails yet for donkeys years we have eaten cockles, mussels, winkles and oysters, in Morecambe bay where i live cockle fishing was banned for a while as they were over fishing the beds and they needed to recover they are now fishing them again, to me they are horrible rubbery things which i will never eat again i believe most of our cockles go abroad and there is a lot of money to be made.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

i believe most of out cockles go abroad and there is a lot of money to be made.

Unfortunately where there is money to be made there will be people who will ignore safety of their workers and cut corners to make it that cost 23 people their lives on this day -

The deaths exposed an underground world of cheap labour in which vulnerable migrants were exploited by criminal gangs and human traffickers.

Twenty years ago, on a dark February night, Chinese cockle picker Guo Binglong frantically made a 999 call, shouting: "Sinking water, sinking water."

He was one of a group of more than 30 Chinese people who were harvesting cockles out on the sands of Morecambe Bay on 5 February 2004.

They were cut-off by the incoming tide.

The moon laughs, the clouds cry,

and a seagull screams at the night's sky,

and the sad sea sighs - goodbye.

It sparked a huge search and rescue effort but 23 people, including Guo Binglong, ended up drowning.

The deaths exposed an underground world of cheap labour in which vulnerable migrants were exploited by criminal gangs and human traffickers.

In 2006, the group's gangmaster was found guilty of manslaughter and jailed for 14 years, external.

All 23 Chinese men and women were swept out to sea as they harvested cockles against a rising tide.

Paul Turner, who is now Morecambe RNLI's lifeboat operations manager, was a 20-year-old volunteer at the time.

"It just looked like a plane had crashed. There were bodies all over the place," he said.

"I was very young at the time and we'd never really experienced anything like that before."

He joined other members of the community in Morecambe who came together on Sunday night to remember the victims and reflect on the impact of the tragedy.

More than 100 people gathered at a memorial service on the beach.

Fire lanterns lit up their faces and braziers illuminated the sands.

Paul Turner, who is now Morecambe RNLI's lifeboat operations manager, was a 20-year-old volunteer at the time.

"It just looked like a plane had crashed. There were bodies all over the place," he said.

"I was very young at the time and we'd never really experienced anything like that before."

He joined other members of the community in Morecambe who came together on Sunday night to remember the victims and reflect on the impact of the tragedy.

More than 100 people gathered at a memorial service on the beach.

Fire lanterns lit up their faces and braziers illuminated the sands.

One of those who also gathered at the beach was James Lui, from the Lancaster and Morecambe Bay Chinese Community Association.

He said he was moved by how the community marked the 20th anniversary of the tragedy.

Mr Lui said: "I feel very thankful that they still remember the lives of 23 people they never met.

"The support shown here today is very, very good."

Elsewhere, the local fishing industry is still coming to terms with the tragedy.

Margaret Owen, 71, who has fished these waters her whole life, said: "Nobody thought it could happen in Morecambe Bay.

"Everybody was devastated, it was the most tragic deaths."

She said the victims had just been trying to earn money, adding: "They were poorly paid immigrants and they paid the highest price ever - they lost their lives."

Mark Taylor, CEO of the North Western Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority, said things had changed in two decades.

"Twenty years ago, it was a free-for-all," he said.

"There were hundreds, sometimes thousands of people out on the cockle beds.

"Anybody could turn up and fish, it didn't require any knowledge of the area."

Following the introduction of a permit scheme, there are now just 150 individuals who are licensed to commercially gather cockles in Morecambe Bay - something authorities say will prevent future disasters.

The tragedy also led to the creation of an industry regulator - the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority, external.

Back on the beach, words written about the tragedy by poet Lemn Sissay have been chalked on the sea wall.

It reads:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-68191697

 

[Rodcx500z]

I always said I drew the line at fois gras, because it's basically animal torture. Then in France one year a relative brought some fresh fois gras liver, and some food gras paté. A few wines in I decided to try it. Both were amazing, buttery, smooth, very delicate but flavourful. I have tried it now, and I don't plan on having it again, but man I wish it wasn't so cruel to produce.

I draw the line at anything that is cruel to the animal, one reason i have never eaten veal and never will, most people will not know this but to get pale color they feed calfs a diet that makes them enaemic which to me is well i have no words i can write on here

 

[Druss]

I draw the line at anything that is cruel to the animal, one reason i have never eaten veal and never will, most people will not know this but to get pale color they feed calfs a diet that makes them enaemic which to me is well i have no words i can write on here

I forgot to add that to my no go list, veal, fois gras and any eggs from battery hens etc.