Grainfather issues

[BlueShack]

I have used a Grainfather S30 for several years with moderate success but have always been disappointed with the mash process. It often sticks or fails to produce the gravity expected, leading to sparging problems. Grainfather blames the grain crush. My question is whether anyone has had success in using the Grainfather to steep the mash instead of the re-circulatory method? This seems a solution and a more traditional way of doing things. My next brew will include rice hulls to help alleviate matters. Many thanks.

 

[Mabbott]

Had this problem when I first used the grain farther. After discussing it with the staff at the malt miller, they suggested adding the grain slower and stirring well in between adding it. I have never had the problem since. Hope it helps.

 

[BlueShack]

Had this problem when I first used the grain farther. After discussing it with the staff at the malt miller, they suggested adding the grain slower and stirring well in between adding it. I have never had the problem since. Hope it helps.

Thanks Mabbott, it’s nice to know rice hulls work and this will be a welcomed quick fix. I was just curious about the success of steeping in a Grainfather. Hopefully someone will have experimented. Cheers.

 

[Mabbott]

Sorry, can't comment on that. Good luck though.
Just a quick one, have you set up the source water profile in the grain farther app?

 

[BlueShack]

Sorry, can't comment on that. Good luck though.
Just a quick one, have you set up the source water profile in the grain farther app?

I’ve had a look at the water profile in Grainfather but already had water analysis by Murphy & Son and worked it out from there. Usually my pH levels hit between 5.1 and 5.3 but sometimes over.

 

[Agentgonzo]

The recirc mash is one of those things I'm "getting used to" with the g30. A lot of brews, I get it going, but most of the water goes down the overflow and I even get gurgling noises as the pump sucks air down the overflow. To whit, I have changed my process:

I no longer push the overflow connector/pipes down all the way to the grain bed. I leave it standing about an inch above the top plate/top of the grain bed. This allows more wort to accumulate and a higher weight of wort to drain down through the grain bed instead of down the overflow pipe

Don't start the recirc pump with the red control valve fully open. I start with it 1/3-1/2 open. I then adjust it for the first 5-10 minutes of the boil, trying to keep the level of the wort just below the overflow pipe. As the mash settles in, I can open it more and more until it's almost fully open.

People have also commented that stirring the mash part way through also helps it drain.

I have found with these few tweaks, the grain bed doesn't get as compacted as it was before and drains better. I hardly ever have wort going down the overflow pipe anymore and never have a stuck mash

 

[trueblue]

Never had a problem and always get an efficiency between 75-85%. I also crush my own grain.

 

[BlueShack]

The recirc mash is one of those things I'm "getting used to" with the g30. A lot of brews, I get it going, but most of the water goes down the overflow and I even get gurgling noises as the pump sucks air down the overflow. To whit, I have changed my process:

I no longer push the overflow connector/pipes down all the way to the grain bed. I leave it standing about an inch above the top plate/top of the grain bed. This allows more wort to accumulate and a higher weight of wort to drain down through the grain bed instead of down the overflow pipe

Don't start the recirc pump with the red control valve fully open. I start with it 1/3-1/2 open. I then adjust it for the first 5-10 minutes of the boil, trying to keep the level of the wort just below the overflow pipe. As the mash settles in, I can open it more and more until it's almost fully open.

People have also commented that stirring the mash part way through also helps it drain.

I have found with these few tweaks, the grain bed doesn't get as compacted as it was before and drains better. I hardly ever have wort going down the overflow pipe anymore and never have a stuck mash

Thanks for your reply. Your reference to gurgling noises is exactly what I have experienced recently and thought the same as you as the wort is sucked down the pipe. To me, that only suggests the grain bed has collapsed and not allowing wort through. As solutions go, there are a number of remedies; a coarser grain crush, rice hulls or stirring at appropriate times in the mash or reverting to steep mashing. I haven’t tried your method of reducing the flow rate but unsure how this would work, but worth a try based on your success. The coarser grain crush is possibly a way to go but involves another expensive outlay in a grain mill. By way of interest, the grain I use is exactly the same product used by my local brewery but of course, they use traditional mashing methods and not a Grainfather. It is frustrating. In the interim period, I going to give rice hulls a go based on numerous positive feedback that this works and reduce the flow rate as suggested. Cheers.

 

[BlueShack]

Never had a problem and always get an efficiency between 75-85%. I also crush my own grain.

Thanks for your reply. You may have hit the nail on the head and perhaps it's time to invest in a grain mill. What mill setting do you use to get the correct grain crush? Having never used one I take it there are variable settings. Cheers.

 

[foxy]

Thanks for your reply. You may have hit the nail on the head and perhaps it's time to invest in a grain mill. What mill setting do you use to get the correct grain crush? Having never used one I take it there are variable settings. Cheers.

Grain comes in different sizes the setting is relative to the plumpness of the grain. If you go down the rice hull path make sure to give them a rinse beforehand. As for stuck mashes I have found the more fluid the mash the less likely a stuck mash. Giving a stir for the first 20 to 30 minutes while the starch converts helps a lot. You have to create your own path down the brewing experience. Don't take as gospel the ratio of liquor to grain, pave your own way, all comes down to learning by experience.

 

[BlueShack]

Grain comes in different sizes the setting is relative to the plumpness of the grain. If you go down the rice hull path make sure to give them a rinse beforehand. As for stuck mashes I have found the more fluid the mash the less likely a stuck mash. Giving a stir for the first 20 to 30 minutes while the starch converts helps a lot. You have to create your own path down the brewing experience. Don't take as gospel the ratio of liquor to grain, pave your own way, all comes down to learning by experience.

Thanks, Foxy. Some sound advice and worthy of note, particularly the grist to liquor ratio. I will be following the advice in my next brew; a milk stout. Cheers.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I haven’t tried your method of reducing the flow rate but unsure how this would work, but worth a try based on your success.

My working theory here that higher flow rate draws the wort through the grain bed at an increased rate and that compacts the grain bed a little, and a compacted grain bed drains less well.

The other theory is that when you dough in, you don't completely saturate the grain. It takes a little time for the grains to fully absorb the water - during which they expand. As they expand, there isn't a lot of space to move into, so the grain bed compacts itself. I assume this is why stirring the grain bed part way through (when the grain bed is fully saturated) helps. I'm now doing an increased amount of stirring at dough in.

I also crush my own grain. Next brew, I think I'll experiment with not fitting the top plate and stirring for the first few minutes of recirc.

Increasing the liquor to grist ratio is also on my radar

 

[foxy]

My working theory here that higher flow rate draws the wort through the grain bed at an increased rate and that compacts the grain bed a little, and a compacted grain bed drains less well.

The other theory is that when you dough in, you don't completely saturate the grain. It takes a little time for the grains to fully absorb the water - during which they expand. As they expand, there isn't a lot of space to move into, so the grain bed compacts itself. I assume this is why stirring the grain bed part way through (when the grain bed is fully saturated) helps. I'm now doing an increased amount of stirring at dough in.

I also crush my own grain. Next brew, I think I'll experiment with not fitting the top plate and stirring for the first few minutes of recirc.

Increasing the liquor to grist ratio is also on my radar

I believe you will find a huge difference in increasing the fluidity of the mash. The starch doesn't take long to convert to sugar so the stirring is roughly 20 minutes. It is noticeable through the stirring, the mash goes from thick to thin, easily recognisable.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Foxy, do you stir continuously for the first 20 minutes, or just occasionally? When you say increase the fluidity of the mash, is this as a result of stirring, or do you increase the liquor to grist ratio?

 

[BlueShack]

My working theory here that higher flow rate draws the wort through the grain bed at an increased rate and that compacts the grain bed a little, and a compacted grain bed drains less well.

The other theory is that when you dough in, you don't completely saturate the grain. It takes a little time for the grains to fully absorb the water - during which they expand. As they expand, there isn't a lot of space to move into, so the grain bed compacts itself. I assume this is why stirring the grain bed part way through (when the grain bed is fully saturated) helps. I'm now doing an increased amount of stirring at dough in.

I also crush my own grain. Next brew, I think I'll experiment with not fitting the top plate and stirring for the first few minutes of recirc.

Increasing the liquor to grist ratio is also on my radar

Thank you again Agent for your clarification, it’s appreciated. I agree with your working theory about higher flow rates. This is something I shall experiment with. I recall hearing about initial grain absorption and perhaps a short delay in the process may allow the grain to hydrate a tad. A good stir also makes sense and together with a measured increase in the grain to liquor ratio, the light at the end of the tunnel may be more visible than before my quest on this forum. Thanks to all contributors.

If there are any brewers who have used Grainfather as a traditional mash tun I would still be interested to hear from you. Cheers.

 

[foxy]

Foxy, do you stir continuously for the first 20 minutes, or just occasionally? When you say increase the fluidity of the mash, is this as a result of stirring, or do you increase the liquor to grist ratio?

No but I do stir regularly, just to keep the temperature more even break up any hotter or colder pockets of the grain.

 

[Agentgonzo]

@foxy , do you have any advice for how to stir the grain bed during the mash? I've got a wheat beer mashing at the moment and the drain rate is very slow. I've stirred it once so far, but given that the overflow pipe and the top plate are both metal, and both submerged in 65°C liquid, it's hard to do without burning my hands. Even if I turn the pump off and let it (slowly!) Drain, is still very hot and hard to remove the top plate to get to the grain bed to stir it

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Agent, i use a brewzilla similar setup, i don't use the overflow pipe i put a blanking plug in, when i mash in i leave the grain bed for 15 minutes to settle i then give it a stir and put the top plate on and leave for 10 minutes then start recirculating

 

[foxy]

@foxy , do you have any advice for how to stir the grain bed during the mash? I've got a wheat beer mashing at the moment and the drain rate is very slow. I've stirred it once so far, but given that the overflow pipe and the top plate are both metal, and both submerged in 65°C liquid, it's hard to do without burning my hands. Even if I turn the pump off and let it (slowly!) Drain, is still very hot and hard to remove the top plate to get to the grain bed to stir it

The overflow pipe has to be removed to be able to stir, as long as you are confident without the overflow pipe. The other thing is use a more fluid mash, don't worry about efficiency that is just a number.

 

[Jim2607]

@foxy , do you have any advice for how to stir the grain bed during the mash? I've got a wheat beer mashing at the moment and the drain rate is very slow. I've stirred it once so far, but given that the overflow pipe and the top plate are both metal, and both submerged in 65°C liquid, it's hard to do without burning my hands. Even if I turn the pump off and let it (slowly!) Drain, is still very hot and hard to remove the top plate to get to the grain bed to stir it

Realise its a day late but for next time.... I pause the timer, turn off the pump, remove the recirculating arm and use thick rubber gauntlets to remove the mash cover then carefully stir up the mash, before replacing/restarting. Things that help when I use corn or flaked oats in the grist are to do the above several times during the mash and add rice hulls as part of the grist. Had a few stuck sparges with oats before adding rice hulls!
Other things you can try are more water in the mash/less in the sparge and wedging the top plate as high as possible to keep it accessible for removal.
Hope that helps!