Grainfather 70L Price, Release Date & more

[xozzx]

Great review. I am really keen to make bigger batches (have the 30L GF now) and thought this sounded great. Hadnt heard about the Brewtools 80L until I saw this video, now just need to convince the wife of how great an "investment" it would be.

 

[peebee]

I think 70L would be a fine size. I use my "G30" as a "no-sparge" system, but find space can be a bit limiting; I'm sure a G70 system will knock out 20-25 litre batches "no-sparge" (40-45 litre batches certainly). I wonder at people saying the "G70" is too big, that then opt for a "G30" system plus an enormous and superfluous "sparge water heater". Over excitable loons reckon "no-sparge" produces inferior beer: Cobblers! And you don't get significant efficiency drops either.

But could I get over the Grainfather 2019 software fiasco (still going on!) to trust buying Grainfather again? Perhaps, but its going to take a bit more time before I would.

Fine impartial summary of G70 by Dave by the way!

 

[strange-steve]

Over excitable loons reckon "no-sparge" produces inferior beer:

I've not heard anyone say that. Quite the opposite in fact, no-sparge wort is supposedly better quality wort. I think efficiency is the reason most GF users sparge, I saw a considerable drop when I tried a no-sparge brew.

 

[peebee]

I've not heard anyone say that. …

Here go: https://grainfather.com/sparge-vs-no-sparge/

From the Grainfather Website too (just to rub it in). But I reckon it's out-of-date (plus GF are in the business of flogging "sparge water heaters" - aka HLTs) and once you've got a system sorted there's no efficiency drop either. I dropped my BH efficiency in the recipe builder when I first tried "no-sparge" (from 75-78% to 70%) but quickly had to put it back (75%) after the first (unexpectedly strong) brew.

You do need to get your system right to handle calculations for the thin mash, to get the system to operate with a thin mash too (by default a thick mash is needed to support the top-plate). But once sorted the calculations are easier (not harder as claimed in that article) e.g. strike temperature is much lower (if using a strike temperature with a GF - 'tain't the "approved" method).

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Can you explain no sparge I.e. I typically put 14l of water into the mash tun and then sparge with about 18l. This gives me about 28l to boil. So with no sparge do you put 30ish litre for the mash?

 

[The Baron]

yes do what is called a Full Volume Mash in other words put all the water in the mash stage. If your vessel will not hold it all use as much as is possible then after the boil top up with water to your desired volume

 

[strange-steve]

Here go: https://grainfather.com/sparge-vs-no-sparge/

From the Grainfather Website too (just to rub it in). But I reckon it's out-of-date (plus GF are in the business of flogging "sparge water heaters" - aka HLTs) and once you've got a system sorted there's no efficiency drop either. I dropped my BH efficiency in the recipe builder when I first tried "no-sparge" (from 75-78% to 70%) but quickly had to put it back (75%) after the first (unexpectedly strong) brew.

You do need to get your system right to handle calculations for the thin mash, to get the system to operate with a thin mash too (by default a thick mash is needed to support the top-plate). But once sorted the calculations are easier (not harder as claimed in that article) e.g. strike temperature is much lower (if using a strike temperature with a GF - 'tain't the "approved" method).

Yeah I'll take that article with a pinch of salt I think, the first I've seen it suggested that no-sparge is inferior. There's a slightly better evaluation on More Beer which comes to the opposite conclusion. I have a suspicion that in the real world it probably makes little noticable qualitative difference.

 

[peebee]

Can you explain no sparge I.e. I typically put 14l of water into the mash tun and then sparge with about 18l. This gives me about 28l to boil. So with no sparge do you put 30ish litre for the mash?

Pretty much it. It's "BIAB" type of thing, or "full-boil-volume-mash". The fiddle is getting the volumes right: Your example might appear almost right with 14+18L, so only 2L short with 30L (max capacity of G30 GF), but you have to account for volume grain is taking up. Hence a G70 makes it a whole lot easier. I make up the shortfall by either topping up the boil (after malt pipe removed) or doing a limited sparge (3-4 litres of water at any temperature - cold even). Stronger beers will be needing a bigger top-up, so, again, a G70 fits much better.

 

[peebee]

Yeah I'll take that article with a pinch of salt I think, the first I've seen it suggested that no-sparge is inferior. There's a slightly better evaluation on More Beer which comes to the opposite conclusion. I have a suspicion that in the real world it probably makes little noticable qualitative difference.

Thanks. That "More Beer" article certainly makes more sense, although doesn't really describe the "full-boil-volume-mash" method; I never really appreciated that the two ("no-mash" and "full-boil-volume-mash") weren't seen as synonymous by everyone.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks PB

 

[strange-steve]

I never really appreciated that the two ("no-mash" and "full-boil-volume-mash") weren't seen as synonymous by everyone

Yeah I first came across this method of no-sparge (ie. use the typical water:grain ratio for the mash then dilute the first running with water) in Gordon Strong's book, where he suggested it greatly improves malt flavours.

I have tried this method and the beer turned out great but I haven't done a side-by-side comparison so I don't know if it actually made a difference.

Edit: apologies to the OP for going off-topic.

 

[peebee]

… Edit: apologies to the OP for going off-topic.

Ah. But I started pursuing this subject 'cos the GF "G70" was getting bad vibes from the thread for being un-necessarily big. 70 litres of beer is perhaps too much, but for making smaller quantities faster and more effectively it's the bee's knees. The money spent on such a device doesn't seem so high when compared to the money and time spent on something smaller and less versatile.

 

[Clint]

Think you'd need a pulley to lift the basket or bag out though if you went for large batches..

 

[F00b4r]

haha. I just came back from Germany. There its just endless amounts of sausages and pork. The beer is pretty good though!

They are pretty serious about their sausages and pork here. Butchers don’t even bother to carry poultry and kids get free 12” (well 30cm) sausages given for free to them to snack on when they accompany you to one; I once had to tell a butcher that my daughter just had a huge lunch so they chopped the sausage down to 8 inches each (she was barely 3!). Ironically Germany is the vegetarian capital of Europe but you workers believe it from the shops and restaurants.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

How much

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

Thanks. That "More Beer" article certainly makes more sense, although doesn't really describe the "full-boil-volume-mash" method; I never really appreciated that the two ("no-mash" and "full-boil-volume-mash") weren't seen as synonymous by everyone.

I do 20 gallon full volume recirculated mashes, always thin, and always in the 80s+,its total tosh that you get less efficiency, even though i was told you must sparge.

 

[David Heath]

Watched the review Dave very good and unlike the US ones no gallons and Fahrenheit thought it was unbiased. But all in ones not for me where the fun in that.

Thank you, much appreciated. I think the only people who think my videos has bias are the ones that have it themselves and my video did not suit them. I think all in one systems have their place and for me they suit my situation. I still brew much beer by hand though for test batches.

 

[David Heath]

How much

I gave this information in the video. 1600 Euros.

 

[David Heath]

Great review. I am really keen to make bigger batches (have the 30L GF now) and thought this sounded great. Hadnt heard about the Brewtools 80L until I saw this video, now just need to convince the wife of how great an "investment" it would be.

Many thanks. I have various videos that show the Brewtools in action and also a review. It is not cheap but it is real deal premium for sure.

 

[David Heath]

If I had that kind of money I think I'd buy two smaller one-pot systems and another fermenter. 70 Litres is a lot of one type of beer to get through - although I suppose you could use this commercially.

It is pretty small for commercial brews but good enough for group brews. Having more than one smaller system is also a good option for sure.