Grain Mill recommendations and grain crush for Brewzilla Gen4

[Jiffy176]

Thanks Jiffy seems to be a similar story nothing wrong with the Gen4 but as brewers we need to find what settings work best on it compared to previous AIO's which some us have had.
I have ordered some uncrushed grain to experiment with and I am going to condition it first as it does seem to cut the flour down which IMO is one of the problems that and grain crush which are obviously related.
I have sorted the user settings for the machine and have that working well in manual mode so just the grains to sort out

What's the plan for conditioning are you going to lay the malt out and spray it or is there an easier way??

 

[Agentgonzo]

What's the plan for conditioning are you going to lay the malt out and spray it or is there an easier way??

I leave it in the grain bucket, spray a few times with a mister, mix it up, repeat, repeat. Takes about 5 minutes

 

[Jiffy176]

I leave it in the grain bucket, spray a few times with a mister, mix it up, repeat, repeat. Takes about 5 minutes

Oh that's easy might try it then. Dis you find you could mill finer?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Oh that's easy might try it then. Dis you find you could mill finer?

I did it first of all with the same mill gap. The flow rate was noticeably improved during the recirculated mash.
Then I tightened the gap a little to get a finer mill. The first time I tightened it too much and the flow rate was poor. So for the next batch I opened the gap a little (still smaller than the original gap) and got (from what I could tell, hard to accurately measure) the same flow rate as my baseline.

Since then I've put the mill gap back to what it was originally. I value the improved flow rate and easier recirculation over a finer mill and slightly higher efficiency.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I leave the grain about 20 minutes after conditioning before milling but process same as @Agentgonzo.
I do not condition or include in my water calculation any unhusked grain such as wheat, flaked grains, roasted malts or naked oats.
I add these in just before milling.

 

[Frisp]

Original recirc pipe goes to outer recirc, with valve usually left fully open. 2nd recirculation flow (pipe from drain tap) is to grain bed, flow being adjusted with drain tap. After rest, drain tap is set for max grain bed flow, without wort level in pipe rising (more than 1cm).

PP got any pics or a wee drawing as im not quite getting how you set this up?

EDIT : I think I got this, when the pump is left in its original configuration, the pump fcan feed wort to either/ both the tap and the recirc arm at the same time..
you can then use the ball valves to control how much flow either route is getting at any specific time

do you keep both flows running throughout the mash or do you stop the flow down the outside of the malt pipe at any point to allow 100% of teh recirc to go through the grainbed?

have I got this right?

 

[Jiffy176]

How do you work out how much water to condition with?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

How do you work out how much water to condition with?

One to two percent by weight of the grains you are going to condition. So don't include the wheats, roasted or flaked from your grain bill.
I have the grains to condition in a plastic rectangular storage bin, weigh my spray bottle of water and work out how much I need to use.
Spray on the surface and mix then weigh, repeat until I've used enough water.
Put lid on the box and leave for about 20 minutes then mill them.

 

[Jiffy176]

So I tried conditioning the grain today.
5400g grain bill and I used 54ml of water.
Grain didn't feel any different. I left the mill on 7 and let the
Malt sit for about 10-15 mins once sprayed and gave it a good stir

Grain was all Weyermann for Marzën
When filling significantly less flour dust. Very noticeable.
During the mash pump on full power after 10 mins and no stuck mash.
I think my numbers were slightly less but nothing to write home about.
I will be doing this from now on.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I do 2% which would have been 108g.

All mills and gaps are different.

 

[jambop]

I am going to give this a try when I do my next brew. I will not be changing the mill gap though because I find it works well at the gap I have so why change conditioning can only improve my flow rate? I think I will also try to raise the malt basket using the method sugested by someone who used the clamps on the side of the boiler to raise it.

 

[Jiffy176]

I didn't need to raise the basket at all. I don't use the top plate but I do use the BT thermometer and use this as a check point to see if the wort is getting too high.
Seriously could believe the lack of flour after I milled!!
I also and have previously used a couple of handfuls of rice hulls just to help along the way.

 

[jambop]

Yes I use the BT thermo too and it really does help. I want to try the extra volume to see how the efficiency is effected as in my opinion extra liquor in the bottom should help wash more sugars from the mash prior to sparging. Whether it turns out to be swings and roundabouts remains to be seen because of course I will be sparging with a little less liquor. I have a boiler extender on order which I think will be a real help because the volume of the kettle is not quite up to the mark in my opinion.

 

[peterpiper]

PP got any pics or a wee drawing as im not quite getting how you set this up?

EDIT : I think I got this, when the pump is left in its original configuration, the pump fcan feed wort to either/ both the tap and the recirc arm at the same time..
you can then use the ball valves to control how much flow either route is getting at any specific time

do you keep both flows running throughout the mash or do you stop the flow down the outside of the malt pipe at any point to allow 100% of teh recirc to go through the grainbed?

have I got this right?

Yes that's it, with the original pump configuration.

The silicon tube I'd ordered was 10mm / 16mm (recirculation arm silicone is 10mm / 13.5mm). The new one just fits the lift holes, but is too large to slide in, to make it secure.
So I always use the original hose for outer recirculation, and the new one via the malt.

I keep a length of double sided velcro (50mm x 200mm) wrapped around top of sparge arm, so the loose end can secure the new pipe (and adjust the height).
Height control is much easier than with the old one.

I put pipe down the lift hole, I've aligned with the recirculation arm side.
This gives most flow, down the side where the heaters are.
TheBaron uses flow down the opposite side (where the temp sensor is). As I always use RAPT, for main temp control, accurate internal sensor reading, seems less important than having settled flour burn on the heater.

It looks like the overall flow was limited more by pipe size, rather than the pump. So watching maximum flow coming from both pipes, if you completely close, then re-open, either valve, the flow from the other pipe hardly changes.
The total max flow with both pipes, appears much higher. Will try to remember to measure it, on next brew day.

While heating to strike temp, recirc via malt pipe (using recirc arm).
Once strike temp reached, start recirc outside malt pipe at max rate. This initially flushes out any cool water there.

Gradually stir in grain very gently. To just break up lumps, without knocking off attached air bubbles (more buoyant grain = less compact grain bed).
Continue max outer recirc, with lid on, during 15-20min grain bed rest (while grain & flour hydrate). This prevents most cooling you otherwise get during the rest.

Maintaining outer recirc, do 10 min of slow recirc via grain. Then gradually increase grain recirc, till wort level starts to rise (by maximum of around 10mm). Too much rise can compact the grain bed (with the differential pressure).
I position 2nd pipe 10mm over liquid level (after hydration / rest, is complete), to act as a guide.
Check grain max recirc later, & after any temperature steps.

If you ever need to blow back through recirc pipe, to clear a blockage, you'd obviously need to close valve on the other pipe, for this to work.
It might be worth doing a blow back, at end of mashout, to clear any stuck grain or flour. Then recirc at max rate for a minute or two, via grain bed only, so any freed particles get filtered out (rather remaining in the boil).

If using the new pipe for final pump out, be sure to recirc through it during the boil.
With a 2m length, it can fill fermenters on my workbench (which the original pipe wouldn't reach).

Otherwise, to empty new hose, for disconnection. I hold end in a cup, while lowering, till pipe flat on floor, and unscrewed.

My BZ is on a wheeled base, that gives drain tap an extra 90mm ground clearance. This makes getting the screw connector on & off easier.
It's also in a large plant saucer, to catch drips.

 

[peterpiper]

A home made one nothing fancy, the reason I use one is that if you use the silicon tube and leave it free it will burrow its way down into the mash as it is like a jet washer coming out on full throttle so I coil it up and let it dangle above the mash with my home made spray head made out of a rubber bulb off a turkey baster with holes made in it.
I am playing with the idea of using a watering can spray head but I may have to enlarge some of the holes in case any grain gets in and clogs it but for now my homemade Heath Robinson works well.

Seems a good idea.
What size holes work - without any grain clogging, and is it silicon that can remain on during boil?

 

[The Baron]

I think the holes are about 3mm approx. I do not use it in the boil for 2 reasons,
1. it is not a silicon bulb I have used
2. I do not use my pump at boil temps as I am not sure the pump is rated for boiling temps

 

[MashBag]

I think the holes are about 3mm approx. I do not use it in the boil for 2 reasons,
1. it is not a silicon bulb I have used
2. I do not use my pump at boil temps as I am not sure the pump is rated for boiling temps

Good choice. Most pumps don't like much over 80c

 

[Jiffy176]

What about this y piece
https://hcl-clamping.co.uk/products...eXhdjV6uGfw6HZEts4PZ5V4kCI2ynCzIaAm5IEALw_wcB

And a bit more hose?

 

[peterpiper]

Good choice. Most pumps don't like much over 80c

Have wondered if pump OK at high temps, but couldn't find a definite answer.
I run it high temp, at times.
1) in getting to boil, to avoid overheat burn under HED. If was easy to remove false bottom + HED before boil, that wouldnt be an issue.
2) for a while, after each addition of hop pellets to hop spider.
3) to sterilise pipework and wort therein (recirc pipe / whilrpool arm / drain tap).
4) while cooling (using immersion chiller), to speed things up.

 

[Jiffy176]

The Web blurb says that the pump can run upto 120 degrees but I have found because the wort is boiling the pump doesn't like it. I usually let me wort cool to just under 90 and the circulate. I always run a whirlpool anyway to try and get the hops in a cone before chilling.