Grain Kit - Help

[Lee111]

Evening All,

I'm looking for some advice please. I have brewed 9 malt extract kits now, all of them have been ok but I'm now looking at moving onto grain kits however I just cant get my head around the instructions. I feel stupid asking these question but I don't want to make a pigs ear of my first grain kit and for it to put me off doing another one.

So I am looking at brewing a small batch of NEIPA (9L) to start with. I have purchased it as a grain kit and it comes with the following Simpsons best pale, Flaked torrified oats, Wheat and New England IPA live liquid yeast. I have ordered citra hops for also.

Now the instructions seem straight forward until it comes to the hoping stage. The instructions seem to give me three options to hop the IPA.
1, add 10 mins into the boil
2, chill beer to 70 - 80 then add hops to hot wart for 30 - 45 mins
3, dry hop 4 days before

So I am assuming that if I was going with option 1 I would do the sparging first, bring it back to the required temperature and add the hops in after the first 10mins has passed? Option 2 seems straight forward I add it to the beer when its cooling for 30 - 45min. Option 3 I have done this before.

So when it comes to hoping using one of the first two methods, should I use a muslin bag? Do the hops need to be removed ?

Any hints and tips are welcome

Thanks

Lee

 

[Jim Brewster]

I would presume you have to hop at all 3 stages, one addition during the boil for bittering, one after boiling and then one dry hopping.

You would mash the grains, usually an hour at 67C but there can be additional stages, sparse if required, then bring the wort to the boil, usually an hour give or take. If it says @10 mins in the instructions this generally means 10 minutes before the end of the boil rather than 10 minutes into the boil. What are the instructions exactly?

I've never done dry hopping so can't help there, I dont think a muslin is essential but I'm not sure.

Just to note, NEIPAs use a ton of hops compared to more traditional beers and the aroma compounds are prone to oxidation and this apparently makes them quite tricky to get right.

 

[Banbeer]

Hi Lee, as above but when doing an all grain kit the hops are usually included, or have been in the ones I have done

 

[Lee111]

I would presume you have to hop at all 3 stages, one addition during the boil for bittering, one after boiling and then one dry hopping.

You would mash the grains, usually an hour at 67C but there can be additional stages, sparse if required, then bring the wort to the boil, usually an hour give or take. If it says @10 mins in the instructions this generally means 10 minutes before the end of the boil rather than 10 minutes into the boil. What are the instructions exactly?

I've never done dry hopping so can't help there, I dont think a muslin is essential but I'm not sure.

Just to note, NEIPAs use a ton of hops compared to more traditional beers and the aroma compounds are prone to oxidation and this apparently makes them quite tricky to get right.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply. After readying you’re comments I have went back to the instructions and it reads as follows...

A	25g	10 minutes
A	25g	Hop stand: chill beer to 70-80C and then add hops to the hot wort for 30-45 mins
A	50g	Dry hop 4 days

It makes sense now. 3 stages to add the hops.

I will only use the muslin at the dry hop stages.

After reading that NEIPA are a difficult brew for a first time I won’t hold my breath .

Thanks Again

Lee

 

[Lee111]

Hi Lee, as above but when doing an all grain kit the hops are usually included, or have been in the ones I have done

Thanks for your reply Banbeer. when I bought the kit it asked my what kind of hops I wanted to use and charged me separately for them. They probably were part of the kit but maybe the price can change depending on what hops I pick.

Thanks again

Lee

 

[Madhouse]

An NEIPA is quite the first AG brew! I’m 23 brews in and am just about to have a go.

I’m doing a similar size batch to you and am going for 2g of bittering hops at 60 mins (token effort) then 70g of hops steeping for 30 mins after flame out and a 150g dry hop 3 days before bottling. It’s loosely based on Verdant’s Even Sharks Need Water, different hops though.

How’s your water where you are? It’s really hard here so rather than treating it I’m going to use cheap bottled water.

 

[Lee111]

An NEIPA is quite the first AG brew! I’m 23 brews in and am just about to have a go.

I’m doing a similar size batch to you and am going for 2g of bittering hops at 60 mins (token effort) then 70g of hops steeping for 30 mins after flame out and a 150g dry hop 3 days before bottling. It’s loosely based on Verdant’s Even Sharks Need Water, different hops though.

How’s your water where you are? It’s really hard here so rather than treating it I’m going to use cheap bottled water.

Hi Madhouse

Thanks for your reply.

I stay in Scotland and it’s soft water we have. It’s one thing I didn’t even think about was the condition of the water.

Thanks

Lee

 

[Keruso]

Evening All,

I'm looking for some advice please. I have brewed 9 malt extract kits now, all of them have been ok but I'm now looking at moving onto grain kits however I just cant get my head around the instructions. I feel stupid asking these question but I don't want to make a pigs ear of my first grain kit and for it to put me off doing another one.

So I am looking at brewing a small batch of NEIPA (9L) to start with. I have purchased it as a grain kit and it comes with the following Simpsons best pale, Flaked torrified oats, Wheat and New England IPA live liquid yeast. I have ordered citra hops for also.

Now the instructions seem straight forward until it comes to the hoping stage. The instructions seem to give me three options to hop the IPA.
1, add 10 mins into the boil
2, chill beer to 70 - 80 then add hops to hot wart for 30 - 45 mins
3, dry hop 4 days before

So I am assuming that if I was going with option 1 I would do the sparging first, bring it back to the required temperature and add the hops in after the first 10mins has passed? Option 2 seems straight forward I add it to the beer when its cooling for 30 - 45min. Option 3 I have done this before.

So when it comes to hoping using one of the first two methods, should I use a muslin bag? Do the hops need to be removed ?

Any hints and tips are welcome

Thanks

Lee

Hi, one of the things we always say is there are no stupid questions here. You can ask the most basic to the most advanced, we all started at some point. General protocol is that hop additions added to the boil are given at times to when the boil completes, in other words how long they are in the boil and not when to add. For example if your boil time is 60mins, and a recipe says add hops at 60mins, 30mins and 0mins then you add hops 60mins before the end of the boil, 30mins before and when the boil ends, at 0mins. The first hop addition in your recipe is at 10mins, assuming your boil is 60mins in total then you will add the hops after 50mins, i.e when there is 10mins left. NEIPAs often include a steep step, which means at 0mins let the temperature drop to 70-80c before you add the hops, this maximises the hop flavour. Dry hopping also uses times to when fermentation ends rather than when to add hops, great if you know how long fermentation takes, but often we don't. Generally I ferment ales for 2 weeks, which means I would add dry hops on day 10, to give 4 days of dry hopping as your recipe suggests.

 

[Lee111]

Hi, one of the things we always say is there are no stupid questions here. You can ask the most basic to the most advanced, we all started at some point. General protocol is that hop additions added to the boil are given at times to when the boil completes, in other words how long they are in the boil and not when to add. For example if your boil time is 60mins, and a recipe says add hops at 60mins, 30mins and 0mins then you add hops 60mins before the end of the boil, 30mins before and when the boil ends, at 0mins. The first hop addition in your recipe is at 10mins, assuming your boil is 60mins in total then you will add the hops after 50mins, i.e when there is 10mins left. NEIPAs often include a steep step, which means at 0mins let the temperature drop to 70-80c before you add the hops, this maximises the hop flavour. Dry hopping also uses times to when fermentation ends rather than when to add hops, great if you know how long fermentation takes, but often we don't. Generally I ferment ales for 2 weeks, which means I would add dry hops on day 10, to give 4 days of dry hopping as your recipe suggests.

Hi Keruso

Thanks for your reply.

I understand the instructions more in regards to it hop stage. Thanks for your input. Good point you made with adding the dry hops on day 10. That’s something I do at the moment using extract. I follow the 2+2+2 rule but I probably would have overlooked it this time around.

Thanks again

Lee

 

[Keruso]

Hi Keruso

Thanks for your reply.

I understand the instructions more in regards to it hop stage. Thanks for your input. Good point you made with adding the dry hops on day 10. That’s something I do at the moment using extract. I follow the 2+2+2 rule but I probably would have overlooked it this time around.

Thanks again

Lee

You’re welcome, verdant do a soft crash before they add the dry hops in this recipe, drop temperature to 15c to minimize hop creep, let them sit for 3-4 days then package. So much faffing in brewing, it’s ridiculous.

 

[Kveik Freak]

Hi Madhouse

Thanks for your reply.

I stay in Scotland and it’s soft water we have. It’s one thing I didn’t even think about was the condition of the water.

Thanks

Lee

Buffering beer with salts is like seasoning food, especially if you have really soft water. Make yourself an account at Beersmith and check out their info on water profiles and their calculators.

As a general rule you'll be wanting to punt up the calcium level. Magnesium doesn't matter too much- the grain has plenty. Too much has a laxative effect. Sodium can be added in the form of table salt (sodium chloride). Small amounts can enhance flavour and are needed in some styles like gose, but it's not essential. Chloride and sulphate are essential and their ratio has an effect on the flavour profile of the beer. A chloride heavy profile brings out the malt, a sulphate heavy profile brings out the hops.

I've found calcium chloride, and calcium sulphate (gypsum) very useful. Sodium bicarbonate (bicarbonate of soda) and calcium bicarbonate (chalk) are good if you need some hardness in the mash that will boil out of the wort before fermentation.

Don't worry too much about the geographical origins of a style when you're building recipes though- professional brewers have been blending and treating water for centuries. You match the water profile to the needs of the beer.

Salting your water will make a huge difference if you ever decide to use kveik yeast, which drops the wort pH more than other kinds during fermentation.

 

[Kveik Freak]

One more thing, Scottish Water has a page where you can find out approximately what your water profile is.

If you really want to be precise, there are tests out there for aquarium keepers that you can use to tell exactly what the calcium etc levels are.

Personally I think the Scottish Water figures are fine for beginners like us, they'll put you in the right ballpark. There are likely other parts of our brewing that we can improve upon that'll make a bigger difference to the end result before we get to the point where it's worth finessing salt levels to that extent!

There's a really good thread about water treatment here. I hope the kit works out well, good luck!

 

[Lee111]

Hi all,

Just want to say thank you for the advice! today I bottled my first AG homebrew. I think it has turned ok! I didn't hit the desired alcohol level of 6 - 6.4% instead it was 5.2% give or take. Happy with that for my first AG. So now its time carbonate the beer. I will give you an update in November on how it tastes.

Thanks Again

Lee