Going to Lpg

[johnh]

Hi All.
Forgive me if this message is a "double" I am new to this forum.
I did send a message t'other night but it didn't seem to get on :|
My wife recently pointed out to me that my brewdays now cost around £15 :shock:
So I am in the process of converting my vessels from leccy to LPG and I need some reassurance that my move from electric to Calor gas is going to be cost effective.
Any experience amongst you?
John

 

[richc]

I don't see how switching from electric to gas is going to save money. If you are running 2, 3kW elements constantly for 3 hours to heat mash/sparge water and to do the boil you will use 18kWh of power. At about 15p per kWh you would be spending £2.70, in reality you are likely to be well below that as I've estimated high for pretty much everything.

 

[WelshPaul]

The best advice I can give you on switching to Calorgas is not to use one of those plastic boilers anymore...

 

[Runwell-Steve]

I used to brew solely on electric, brewing a 25 Litre Brew length.

My HLT took approx 40 mins to heat the Mash Water @ 2.4KWh
My HLT then took approx and hour to heat the sparge water @ 2.4KWh
I boiled for 60 minutes, so the boiler was on for approx 90 @ 3KWh

In total I used 8.5KWh of electrix, which at 13p per KWh cost me £1.10.

I don't quite see where your £15.00 number comes from, or is that including all your ingredients as well.

I have now upgraded the brewery to a 50 Litre Brew Length and heat the water differently. I fill my HLT with water direct out of my Combi boiler, then use electricity to get it up to strike temperature.

My boiler uses an 8.8KWh burner and burns propane.

I can't give you exect figures but My 19Kg cylinder cost £25.00 plus deposit, I have so far used it for 11 brews and there still seems to be plenty in it. You do need some up front investment though as if you don't have them already you will want 2 bottles. One running out mid boil is not useful. You will also need a burner, and depending on if you brew inside or outside will determine what one you get.
You will also need a nice shiny copper unless you already have one.

My main reason for switching to Gas was that my electric supply in the garage would have needed upgrading in order to run 2 x 3KW elements in the boiler at the same time, so I decided on the gas route. I do actually prefer gas on the boiler as it means less electric cables lying around to avoid spilling wort on.

 

[johnh]

Thanks for your responses chaps,
I'm sure that woman has got something wildly wrong or it's a plot.
My HLT has 2 kettle elements as has my boiler (not plastic but SS :rofl: ) and my mash tun is a heavily insulated SS 40L Burco boiler (what size element)?
Tomorrow I will check both my last bill and also what KW elements I actually am running at present (in the past some have died and I have dodged in a couple of physically smaller types).
So I will calculate from both directions and see what's going on here.

I am going for it anyway as I have the same problem as one of you needing to upgrade my shed on a proper ring and am also sick of tripping over dodgy wet cables.
Plus I am hoping for more speed with the 4.9 Kw Paella burner I have ordered.
I will leave my elements in place while I test this leap of faith, just in case.
Oh and I am being given 2 full big Calor bottles, the 19Kg ones I believe so they will give me quite a few free brews.

I will report back...

Thanks again,
John.

 

[Springer]

I may be wrong here, but, calorific value of calor = 14 kw / kg
At the price quoted 19 kg for £25 = £1.30 per kg= 9p per kw :? , similar to electric :? :)
But unless you have a cunning set up, the heat losses to the world are enormous, compared to a well insulated electric boiler.
To my mind, if at all possible electric has got to be the way to go, unless you get your gas free. Don't forget that Steve's way is not quite as cost effective as first appears cos theres no calculation for the combi. fuel.
Your pays your money and takes your choice, for me I like brew day to be quiet and without great flame licking about. Might be ok in winter keeping warm in all that escaping heat .
As for £15 pound a brew is this including ingredients? 20 -25 p a pint is more like the real cost, against £1.60 ish for some fizzle inferior stuff in a bottle from the supermarket.
J, I suggest that you need a budget meeting with your accountant, to iron out the the true costs and potential savings :lol:
S

 

[johnh]

Hi Springer,
Ta for response.

Do you know my lurch into this gas lark has opened quite a can of worms for me.
Even though I am truly ****, well disinterested, so thereby **** in all things mathmatical last night I finally and for the first time after years of mashing sat down and costed out my ten gallon brews (but NOT inc power used :-
Malt 7Kg - Crystal 400g - hops, etc. etc. ending with 9.9 galls of booze to discover that my beer costs 64p a pint, how does your's cost 25p? ... is it LA :) Mine's roughly about 3.8 ish I think :wha:

You know what chaps and chapesses, encouraged by this forum from now on I am going to get a re-grip on all my costings and equipment, I have been brewing nice beer but not really thinking things through for far too long...

Cheers again for feedback,
Forums ROCK :clap:
John.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

My brew cost me on average 32 pence per pint including gas and electric. They are usually about 5 % and heavy on hops.

Where are you buying you ingredients, is it possible you are paying too Mich for them.

Have a look at theMaltMiller at the top of the page and worcester hop shop.

 

[Springer]

Just did a costing of my last brew, a pedi clone, very nice better than the "real" stuff my taster said

4500 kg maris otter at £22 a bag (Murphys Nottingham) = 4.5 x 90p = £4.00
250 grams of sugar £0.20
yeast Could be free if harvested £1.80
Hops £2.00
Electric max £1.50
Steralizer Say £0.50
Bottle tops £0.60
£10.60
Unless I have missed something like a tablet of campden and protafloc etc :? Thats 21p a bottle, or maybe 26p a pint :? ok maybe nearer 30p for a brew with a few more grains. Take away the tops and yeast and we are back to 20p a pint, but nowwhere near 64p
No equipment cost included !
S

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Having recently converted to LPG, Ive got a few pointers.
1. Going on the weight of the full bottle I expect to get 21 brews out of a 13kg bottle (note...this is by weight and some basic maths on the back of a fag packet.
2. Its much easier to clean. No worrying about stripping down, getting the electrical side of the element wet. Just hose it down.
3. Having 2 bottles is ideal. Just a note...Keep one bottle for use and keep only a little bit of gas in the secondary.
4. It really keeps the neighbours thinking about what your doing.

 

[johnh]

Hi All,
Anyone want a vitually unused Paella burner? Hey it's a smashing wok burner, I tried it tonight! (bit bulky mind with the 13 Kg bottle in the kithen).

So I forced meself to do the sums and generally "get with the script" re: my electric consumption...

Last 10 gall brew day I used 14 units as seen on our leccy meter: I unit = 1Kw/hr used,
So let's say leccy costs on average 15p/Kw (CBA looking for my bill's tarrif at pres), 14 x 0.15 = £2.10...
Grrr, £15 my ar*e, what a fool's errand I have been on, oh well it's been interesting...

So now I need to check out my fallible sums on my 64p a pint brew costs, I pay £25 for 25Kg of Maris which is the best I can screw out of Peter at The Stockport Brewshop :|

Tell you what though I am still going to do a few gas brews just for the fun of it, well I have have built a metal brew "gas station" now as well haven't I !
Hey it's only my time and I am retired now, it didn't cost me much so what the heck :)
Hope my little troubles made you smile :
John.

 

[Springer]

Sounds like your calculations are coming together, Don't forget the pleasure you get from brewing and the satisfaction of a top quality pint, not to mention the 40 quid plus, saved on each brew.
Nothing wrong with gas it depends on circumstances and what you fancy.
I went quite a way down the gas route, even constucted a pocket on my boiler, might come in one day. :lol:

Before opting out to electric.

S

 

[johnh]

Thanks for your comforting confession Springer, of course you'll use it one day, you will wont you? Yes one day...

It's hard baring all to a forum isn't it but at my age do you know what
I am really good at plenty of other things, so what the hell, I refuse to feel too embarrassed at this 'Town Hall steps' moment.

So jealous of your welding skills mate, my set-up would be so different if I could weld or at least had the facilities so I could have a bash at it.

Anyway I've had a positive thought about my new semi redundant gas set-up; heaven forfend that the divorce should ever come in and I end up living in our lickle 2 berth caravan on some iffy site, well I can keep on mashing can't I !

Ever the bright side guys
John.

PS Why are our leccy bills now over the ton in Summer, we live like church mice.

 

[Dronfieldbrewer]

It depends where you are but:-

Bairds Malt 25kg, cash and carry from Newark ( nottinghamshire):-

Maris otter about £14
Pale Malt about £12-£13

trouble is you have to ring first then pick it up. Alright if you have a lot of brews planned. I am brewing once a week at the moment, stocking up for xmas so I will be picking up a few sacks in 1 go
worcester hop shop for hops, reuse yeast.
I buy the coloured malts from local homebrew shop as the cost of postage is not worth it, A kilo would last me quite a bit.

The cost of a 23lite brew excluding leccy is about £7, so say £10 including the bottle tops and a bit of leccy and sanitiser

makes about 25p per pint or thereabouts.

I end up with a pint that smashes the supermarket Eurofizz into the weeds.

I can see the point of moving to gas if your brewing a boat load at a time. My problem is that 10 gallons is the limit at moving the FVs about and to be brutaly honest, bottling more than 5 gallons in 1 go is mind numbing

 

[Springer]

Baids Malt smeounds worth a look
Yes 25p is for me
As for a lot of bottling washing do a search for one off my post on bottle washing :thumb:
Supermarket eurofizz spot on :x Some people must like it.
S
:

 

[johnh]

Hi All,
You will be pleased/bored/(exasperated)? to hear that I have at last got me dum-ass in gear and my improved sums prove that yes my beer does indeed cost about the same as yours.

So: I pay £25 for 25 Kg of Maris, £6.13 for 3 Kg of Crystal, £5.10 Fuggs & Goldings.
So: inc leccy at around let's say £2.50ish my 10 gall Bass clone brews cost around £17.90... 17.90 divided by 80ish (pints) = 22p/pint...ish!

Robbarwell, I got lucky a few years ago to aquire a beer manifold/dispensing system from a mates defunct club, so I barrel my regular beer and use Co2 to push it out, I have a converted upright freezer as my "cellar" controlled at around 9C.
It's bloody great, well worth the faff and cost, bottling is a kitchen floor swishing n-n-nightmare. Oh I just thought £11 a quarter for Co2 should go on my beer costing as well should it not :shock:

http://www.thebrewshop.com/contents/en-uk/d109.html

I don't really have my own website but if you are at all interested, Peter at the brewshop put me on his shop's site, he has got things slightly wrong in his descriptions but you will get the gist of how I brew in my little 8 x 6 shed...

Night Guys :

Drinking a WGV geen hop beer right now, it's Ok but nowt special :mrgreen:

 

[Springer]

Glad to hear the plan coming together
Bass clone :hmm: been looking for one of those, now if it's as good as it as in bye gone years, I'll give it a go, details would be nice.
My bottling came on with leaps and bounds by batch priming into a bucket with a nice tap, positioned at working height for bottle filling with enough back light to see when they were full
S

 

[johnh]

... 'by batch priming'
D'Oh... D'ye know I never ever thought of that, saves fiddling sugar into each bottle with a funnel dun tit.
warra dum-ass I am

I use a Bass recipe out of my ancient Dave Line book, I'll chuck you the recipe if you like, he does use "added white sugar" but I don't unless for some reason I don't hit my desired OG

John.

 

[johnh]

Hi Chaps & Chapesses,
So I did my first 10 gall brew using my LPG set up.

Not bad, the 4.5 Kw Paella burner heated the 10 gall HLT tank Ok by the time my wort had mashed ready for the sparge, but it took ages to get the already hot wort in my 10 Gall SS barrel/boiler up to a boil mainly because the burner was a tad too low beneath the boiler. So I gave a blast with one of the kettle elements and it soon got there.

I cannot gas brew in my little shed (fumes) so I was lucky it was a still day; as someone mentioned wind can be a real problem :nono:
On a windy day the burner flame would be moved around and thus seriously cooled, so the burner must be shielded around without smothering the flame through lack of oxygen of course.
The best situation would be in a large well ventilated garage or similar.

So in my limited experience for anyone considering going to gas, yes it's do-able but with these niggles to consider and plan out.

Cheers, John.