darkonnis
Active Member
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- Apr 27, 2012
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Hi, sorry i usually post on the other forum.
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion as to where you can brew and the such like.
Now I live in a semi-detached house on a street of 12 houses, on the edge of an estate. A mate of mine who is pretty damn good at sales (he could sell sand to a saudi) asked if i wanted to start a small 1bbl brewery and maybe supply a local pub or 2 but mainly so we could potter off to beer festivals and the such and have something to show for it. Now as a part time business this sounded like a lot of fun (and work but thats for another story)
Trouble is, 1bbl isn't feasible at all. Especially not part time as if you rent a premises thats money and more tax and rates, so the only option was the garage.
I bought the microbrewers handbook, spoke to a lot of guys that own micros and in short came to the conclusion that I was **** out of luck. No way was I going to get planning. E-mails however are free and even if they served me with an immediate enforcement notice I was still no worse off for asking.
So i did, I emailed, then rang. Had a nice long chat with a planning officer who brought my house up on street view so he could inspect my proposed garage, he said it was a huge grey area but that I should be fine as long as we toe'd the line, ensured no complaints etc.
A senior planning officer, one of the ones which reviews, decides whats what, and takes cases before the council panel got in touch. I was confident after my first chat, not so much when they showed renewed interest. I answered about all sorts of questions. Who would we be supplying? vehicle movements and very important, what vehicles? Size? External changes? Storage? Expansion? production? Max production? expected production etc etc and the list goes on. But those where the main ones.
I answered in full, and received a letter saying that because of the size of our proposed "plan" it was not deemed to be utilising the house for INDUSTRIAL use (which is key, it has absolutely nothing to do with commercial use, breweries are classed as B2 industrial) and on the grounds that we could not expand (normal size garage) there was no need at all for permission to change the use of the building as we wouldn't be. The residential property was still being used for what it was intended first and foremost. ie living in, the small brewery which is arguably not much bigger than many homebrew systems was by the by. If we chose to change the premises license, it would likely be accepted but we'd have to keep our end of the bargain (in terms of its size etc)
So there you go, I hope that clears up some of the confusion. Oh and with regards to HMRC and beer duty, there is a distinction between brewing for others and for yourself even though you're listed as a sole trader and have a brewery in your house. I will try and find out where I saw it and add to this post because I'd wondered about this too and there isn't much point asking HRMC because they've downsized so much and so quickly the operators often don't know much more than you do, they're looking at the same screens of information. That was from a guy who lives local who teaches tax legislation for HMRC.
*edit* I've read that back and I've missed a bit. For our proposed system WE didn't need to apply for permission. It is different from council to council and your proposed system will have a lot to do with it, as will your vehicles (an artic turning up is not acceptable was the gist of it, end of discussion). So check with your planning department, they want you to comply because it makes their job 1000 times easier.
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion as to where you can brew and the such like.
Now I live in a semi-detached house on a street of 12 houses, on the edge of an estate. A mate of mine who is pretty damn good at sales (he could sell sand to a saudi) asked if i wanted to start a small 1bbl brewery and maybe supply a local pub or 2 but mainly so we could potter off to beer festivals and the such and have something to show for it. Now as a part time business this sounded like a lot of fun (and work but thats for another story)
Trouble is, 1bbl isn't feasible at all. Especially not part time as if you rent a premises thats money and more tax and rates, so the only option was the garage.
I bought the microbrewers handbook, spoke to a lot of guys that own micros and in short came to the conclusion that I was **** out of luck. No way was I going to get planning. E-mails however are free and even if they served me with an immediate enforcement notice I was still no worse off for asking.
So i did, I emailed, then rang. Had a nice long chat with a planning officer who brought my house up on street view so he could inspect my proposed garage, he said it was a huge grey area but that I should be fine as long as we toe'd the line, ensured no complaints etc.
A senior planning officer, one of the ones which reviews, decides whats what, and takes cases before the council panel got in touch. I was confident after my first chat, not so much when they showed renewed interest. I answered about all sorts of questions. Who would we be supplying? vehicle movements and very important, what vehicles? Size? External changes? Storage? Expansion? production? Max production? expected production etc etc and the list goes on. But those where the main ones.
I answered in full, and received a letter saying that because of the size of our proposed "plan" it was not deemed to be utilising the house for INDUSTRIAL use (which is key, it has absolutely nothing to do with commercial use, breweries are classed as B2 industrial) and on the grounds that we could not expand (normal size garage) there was no need at all for permission to change the use of the building as we wouldn't be. The residential property was still being used for what it was intended first and foremost. ie living in, the small brewery which is arguably not much bigger than many homebrew systems was by the by. If we chose to change the premises license, it would likely be accepted but we'd have to keep our end of the bargain (in terms of its size etc)
So there you go, I hope that clears up some of the confusion. Oh and with regards to HMRC and beer duty, there is a distinction between brewing for others and for yourself even though you're listed as a sole trader and have a brewery in your house. I will try and find out where I saw it and add to this post because I'd wondered about this too and there isn't much point asking HRMC because they've downsized so much and so quickly the operators often don't know much more than you do, they're looking at the same screens of information. That was from a guy who lives local who teaches tax legislation for HMRC.
*edit* I've read that back and I've missed a bit. For our proposed system WE didn't need to apply for permission. It is different from council to council and your proposed system will have a lot to do with it, as will your vehicles (an artic turning up is not acceptable was the gist of it, end of discussion). So check with your planning department, they want you to comply because it makes their job 1000 times easier.
