Glucoamylase in lager

[The Baron]

Hi I am going to do a pseudo lager using kveik yeast so will be fermented reasonably high in temp.
The question is I have got the Glucoamylase and I will be adding to the FV and it says to use such a small amount for 10 litres.
Does the amount seem right I.e 0.4 ml for 10 litres for you members that have used it and what about the temp which will be high as I am wanting to pitch the kveik at 40c and let it freefall.
Any help from experienced Gluco users please.
Ps I am wanting to use a high amount of rice so it's a pseudo Japanese style lager.
I have included pics of the viall to show the amounts suggested.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I've used the enzyme a few times, I used a bit of enzyme in the mash ( I step mashed so put it in at 50celsius) as well as later in the fermenter.
I did use kveik and I put the enzyme in the fermenter as I filled it and it will work great when warm, kveik temperatures and downwards.
The enzyme won't denature in the fermenter at those temperatures and if you put a little more in the action will be quicker, a little less and it will take longer to work.
My rice lager recipe used milled rice which I heated it in water to a simmer for a while before adding water and rice to the mash tun water at 50. It was like an enormous block of wallpaper paste and took a lot of mixing to break it down ( note enzyme was in the mash water pre adding the rice gloop) would have been better if I'd had a much bigger pot to boil the rice in and could have added a lot more of the mash water.
Then added the grains into the mash tun and the step mash / sparge and boil as normal.
You might need some rice hulls in there, I used glucanase enzyme as well as the glucoamylase so that I didn't need the rice hulls.

 

[The Baron]

Hi RWAB good info there.
I am going to use 2 min microwave rice as it is already gelatinised but it does say that there is 29g of carbs of which less than 0.5 g is sugar that is per 100g, does that seem right virtually no sugar?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I've just looked at the contents of tesco microwave basmati rice that seems to have 0.2g of sugar per 250g ( but it is hydrated already) and 334 calories per 250g. The calories are obviously in the starch carbohydrate part and you need the amylase enzyme to break the starch down ( hence me milling it into smaller bits ). You could just coarsley blend the rice pre mashing.
Seems from looking at brewersfreind that 1 kg of flaked rice ( dry ) 100% efficiency makes 40 points/pound/gallon.
I said 5litres post mash 1kg of rice and it would have been 1.067.

Wet rice i'm unsure.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

i did note on the precooked rice

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/251680648
that there is salt in there and you might want to check that for your product and factor it into the water chemistry.

Carbohydrate is 4 calories per gram, same for protein and fat is 9 calories per gram.

So working back on the tesco rice as an example
3g of fat is 27 calories,
rounding get 7g of protein so 28 calories

So 55 calories in those two and 332 calories in total in the packet so 332 - 55 is 277.

277 divided by 4 is 69.25 g of carbohydrate

and now I scrolled down the page and see it says carbohydrate is 68.6 g

So " my " packet made up to 1000 ml post mash and 100 percent conversion would have a gravity of 1.023.

I think.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

This thread has some useful links in it about rice lager and enzymes

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/help-stuck-rice-lager.103449/

 

[The Baron]

Thanks RWAB I have read the attached links which does help.
I am still unsure of how much fermentable sugar I will get out of 1kg of Microwave rice so it looks like experimental times ahead

 

[Brewnaldo]

Thanks RWAB I have read the attached links which does help.
I am still unsure of how much fermentable sugar I will get out of 1kg of Microwave rice so it looks like experimental times ahead

Microwave rice is pretty oily is it not? Aren't you concerned about that coming through and killing your head retention?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@the baron

Can you send a picture or tell us the brand to do some digging about the amount of rice and water. I'm up for some detective work / more maths.

 

[scomet]

Hi Guys, FWIW, a few years ago I made lots of rice beer as my summer brews 'Faux Bia Hoi’ but a lot stronger - this is my experience.
Brewing on a 20L Braumeister I used 15 to 20% rice in a 4.5kg grain bill. I compared raw white rice to boiled white rice (gelatinised) this made no difference to the Og and Fg or ferment, the boiled (gelatinised) rice gave a cloudier beer. I tried brown rice, this was horrible! I put that down to too much oil in the rice. So in the finish I just threw the dry white rice through the mill with the grain.
I used a typical Pilsner mash profile and tried various hops, settled on summit in the finish it made a dry bitter faux lager. I over pitched Nottingham at 20c and commonly got down to 1006 , use a blow off tube :-} Cheers

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@scomet
I think the barons issue is 1kg of microwave rice isn't 1kg of rice but rice and water so he's not sure about the dry weight of rice to get the gravity estimate.
My rice lager was clear without finings although I did put clarity ferm in the fermenter.

 

[The Baron]

Yeah thats right RWAB I do not have gelatinised rice in my drop down box recipe builder so it is hard to guestimate whats its going to do OG wise.
I will send a pic of the rice when I get some today hopefully it is the Aldi Long Grain in a 250g pack and I will be using 4 of.
The lager is going to be light as well so a bit shy on ABV so is a bit of a experiment meant to be a little like the Japanese beers that are very dry hence the Glucoamylase

 

[The Baron]

Re the oil and the head retention I have used the rice before in smaller amounts and it does not seem to affect it too much and it is a Lager so not as critical but a head would still be nice.
When I have used it before I always skim the break as it is coming upto boil and as oil floats on water I wonder if this has helped to remove it?

 

[The Baron]

This the rice I will be using a kilo of with approx 2 kilo of lager malt a little acid malt a 100g of carapils
Hoping for a sub 4.00 abv

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Okay i have compared it to aldi long grain easy cook dry rice and I reckon that each 250 g packet you have has around 88 grammes of dry rice equivalent.

So 4 packets will be 352 grams of rice.

Pop that figure in and see what you get.

 

[The Baron]

Thanks will give it a go
I will have to put it as Flaked rice do you think that will compute?

 

[The Baron]

Hi I have just looked up the wet rice to dry rice weight ratio and it is approx 1 third so that ties in with what you are saying so I will use flaked rice in the recipe builder and that should be reasonably accurate.
Thanks for your help and I will report back when I have done it on how accurate it was

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@the baron

Yes I'm interested to see how it goes. I think there is something called rice syrup that I saw once in a chinese supermarket might try and track that down and have a look at what it is.

 

[The Baron]

Yes there is I have heard of it on the American sites but yet to see it in the UK but that will be interesting if it can be found in the Chinese Supermarkets.
Ps I went for the rice today but not in stock at Aldi at the moment the usual in and out stocking problems that everybody is suffering so may end up using plain old rice after all that. We will see what I can lay my hands on tomorrow

 

[scomet]

I found it in the 'health food' section of a regular supermarket, used it a couple of times but went back to plain old white rice, the jar claims its made from pure organic brown rice.