Free Scotland

[An Ankoù]

With no apparent "legal" way for Scotland to ask it's folk whether or not they want to remain in the Union without specific permission from Westminster, Scotland has finally twigged that it really has the status of "colony" rather than self-determining nation. The Scots, it would seem, are infinitely more European than their xenophobe neighbours and declined independence at the earlier referendum, not least, because they would have had to apply for membership of the EU as a separate country. That changed with Brexit, which, to my mind, rendered the first referendum null and void, and it looks like Scotland, by and large, values European-ness more than British-ness. Should we be lobbying our MPs to give Scotland the choice for self-determination?

Thoughts?

Edit: Perhaps I should have done this as a yes/no/not sure opinion poll, but I haven't figured out how to insert such a poll.
The question would be: "Should Scotland have the right to decide its own future?"

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Poll added

 

[LeeH]

Where the they already have option?

 

[Gingerbrews]

We've already had 1 referendum; Plenty of more serious problems to be addressed before another.

If the Nats could show themselves capable of running the country efficiently, then, maybe, the thought of Ref 2 can be raised.

The idea of all that hatred stoked up between people fills me with utter dread.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Any collection of people should be able to decide their own destiny. It's really sad that an England-centric court has upheld an England-centric law stating that England must approve of Scotland having a vote on Scotland's future. It's the same as if Russia denied the Ukrainians the right to their independence referendum in 1991.

Can you imagine what would have happened in 2016 if the EU went "no, the UK is not allowed to have a referendum about leaving the EU"?

As much as I would prefer Scotland to remain part of the union (I live in England), it's really sad that it is effectively, as AA says, "just a colony"

 

[An Ankoù]

Poll added

Thanks, Chippy.

 

[An Ankoù]

We've already had 1 referendum; Plenty of more serious problems to be addressed before another.

If the Nats could show themselves capable of running the country efficiently, then, maybe, the thought of Ref 2 can be raised.

The idea of all that hatred stoked up between people fills me with utter dread.

Yeah, polls are divisive and the Scots have a reputation for bearing a grudge (don't know if that's justified or not). But the questions remain: Do they need nannying by their bigger neighbour or should they be "trusted" with self-determination? And, are they a country, province, region or what? Same question applies to Wales.

 

[Brewnaldo]

We've already had 1 referendum; Plenty of more serious problems to be addressed before another.

If the Nats could show themselves capable of running the country efficiently, then, maybe, the thought of Ref 2 can be raised.

The idea of all that hatred stoked up between people fills me with utter dread.

The idea that democracy only gets to happen once is almost as insane as the assumption that the "Nats" will be in charge of running an independent Scotland.

Both premises are usually peddled by people being completely disingenuous, of course.

 

[An Ankoù]

If it's not clear from the profile, perhaps contributors could say whether they live in Scotland as it they who have the greater stake.

 

[dad_of_jon]

As a geographically distinct piece of land I'd like Wales, Scotland and England to remain united. Ireland is in a more difficult situation with regards to the wishes of those across the water. I consider myself British and European. Born and bred in Wales, with English parents.

Splitting up land masses into smaller and smaller bits in my mind is like heading towards balkanism. Humans seem to like to be part of smaller tribes than a map normally shows. Swansea / Llanelli (Jacks and Turks( separated by which side of the bridge you live on. Norfolk / Suffolk - We've all seen the football T shirts where supporter X is peeing on local rival Y 's football shirt. I will not vote for welsh independence if I get a chance because I quite like the neighbours next door. The current UK government is pants IMO but surely that will sort itself out the next election which everyone in the UK can vote on.

Please stay Scotland.

 

[Gingerbrews]

The idea that democracy only gets to happen once is almost as insane as the assumption that the "Nats" will be in charge of running an independent Scotland.

Both premises are usually peddled by people being completely disingenuous, of course.



The "premise" I was trying to raise is that unfortunately the current Scottish Govt isn't really doing that well. There are numerous problems which require to be addressed prior to IndyRef 2; sadly some folk just feel that wishing for independence will solve them
If the Nationalists in power took more time to fix the problems AND try to persuade the doubters (me included) that there is at least an economic argument, maybe, and only maybe, we could have a balanced discussion as to the future.

 

[user 4749]

In a one word answer NO we decided in 2014 when the Scottsih Gov signed up to a Once in a Generation Referendum. Get on with running the Country not grand standing .
I live in Scotland

 

[RichardM]

Maybe the SNP could run the country better if they eere

The idea that democracy only gets to happen once is almost as insane as the assumption that the "Nats" will be in charge of running an independent Scotland.
Both premises are usually peddled by people being completely disingenuous, of course.
The "premise" I was trying to raise is that unfortunately the current Scottish Govt isn't really doing that well. There are numerous problems which require to be addressed prior to IndyRef 2; sadly some folk just feel that wishing for independence will solve them
If the Nationalists in power took more time to fix the problems AND try to persuade the doubters (me included) that there is at least an economic argument, maybe, and only maybe, we could have a balanced discussion as to the future.

May be the SNP could do a better job if they weren't subject to UK laws and policies determined largely by English MPs in Westminster

 

[user 4749]

SNP determine most of their own policies and laws as they have primacy over most of the important areas Policiing Nhs Dss etc .
Fix the problems instead of creating more I might listen.

 

[Brewnaldo]

In a one word answer NO we decided in 2014 when the Scottsih Gov signed up to a Once in a Generation Referendum. Get on with running the Country not grand standing .
I live in Scotland

Nope

 

[user 4749]

Nope

You are right, though it is a phrase used by SNP,Salmond and Sturgeon in their quest for a Referendum and in the canvassing upto the Referendum.

 

[RichardM]

SNP determine most of their own policies and laws as they have primacy over most of the important areas Policiing Nhs Dss etc .
Fix the problems instead of creating more I might listen.

They have very little control of fiscal or monetary policy.

 

[Rodcx500z]

The problem with this is it is westminster and not the people of England who are stopping Scotland having another vote, my personal view if it is what the Scots want so be it

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The problem with this is it is westminster and not the people of England who are stopping Scotland having another vote, my personal view if it is what the Scots want so be it

I totally agree with that but as has been said they signed up to a Once in a Generation Referendum in 2014 and now want another, what happens if the result is the same do they demand another a couple of years later?

 

[Brew_DD2]

We've already had 1 referendum; Plenty of more serious problems to be addressed before another.

If the Nats could show themselves capable of running the country efficiently, then, maybe, the thought of Ref 2 can be raised.

The idea of all that hatred stoked up between people fills me with utter dread.

Rather troublesome that they keep being voted back in, right?