foxbat's brewdays

[matt76]

I enjoy the whole yeast management thing: preparing the starter, watching it grow and keeping a supply in the fridge.

This is exactly what it's about, you gotta enjoy what you're doing. Doesn't do it for me but if it blows your skirt up then more power to you

Pasteurisation at 100C takes 0.01 seconds, 0.05 seconds at 95C and 0.1 seconds at 94C. You get the idea :)

Yeah, it's a good point, something that had started to dawn on me recently actually. Just dunking the chiller in after I switch off the heat but just before I start the whirlpool for example should be plenty good enough to pasteurise. So no worries about the chiller pushing the bag onto the element.

I got my hop bag (and BIAB bag) from bj-filters on ebay. They're very good. If you do buy a new nylon bag give it a 5 minute boil in a pan on your hob before you use it to get rid of any production chemicals. When I did that the boil water went a pale white colour.

It's in the mail, coincidentally from the same seller. Thanks for the tip about boiling it on the hob first though, hadn't thought of that

In my case, rather then squeeze the bag I think I would just raise the bag up and secure with clips above the level of the wort (small batch size + deep kettle in my case) and let it drain slowly while I'm waiting for the break crud to settle out for an hour or so.

 

[foxbat]

A question on starter size. I have just received my order yesterday and plan to make my starter tonight. I will be using WLP London fog yeast. Best before date is December 3rd 2020. If I put my details in a calculator it's asking for a 2 litre starter at 1.036, which is roughly 200g of spray malt. This is for 21litres at 1.050.
Is this correct as your starter is 1.75 litre which contains 0.5 litre over build. Also how can I calculate a 0.5 litre over build if my calculations are correct. Is it just a case of adding an extra 50g and 0.5 litres of water.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer me

WLP066 comes in the 'pure pitch' plastic sachet doesn't it? If so then the starting cell count is 100bn and the expiry date is 6 months. Your pack is nice and fresh. My usual brewunited calculator is offline right now so I'm checking with the calculator in Beersmith which generally agrees with the one at brewunited.

Volume: 21 litres, OG 1.050
Production date: 3/6/2020
Yeast cells needed: 197bn
Viability: 71%
Starting cell count: 100bn
Starter size needed: 0.85 litres
DME needed: 80g

I normally overbuild at about 100bn cells to simulate a 'fresh pack'. This comes out at close enough to an extra 500ml / 50g on the starter size. Decant from the flask to the overbuild jar as soon as you lift it off the stir plate - you'd be surprised how fast some yeasts flocculate to the bottom and you want to try to pour out a proportionate amount of yeast not just spent starter.

 

[foxbat]

I checked the starter and it was complete this morning (36 hours) so I switched it off and transferred 500ml to a kilner jar.

The flask then went back in the fridge to be chilled until brew day on Sunday. This starter produced no significant krausen at all - just a covering of bubbles across the top for a few hours. I checked my notes from 2018 when I last used this yeast and sure enough I'd made the same observation back then.

 

[Brewnaldo]

The overbuilding thing interests me. I assume that's a method of retaining yeast for another brew rather than harvesting it afterwards, or in some cases just needing a much higher cell count?

Going by what you said above, I assume a stir plate is pretty neccessary for this to ensure the decent actually contains plenty of yeast.... Unsure whether my "shake whenever I walk past" would cut it in this instance.

 

[foxbat]

The overbuilding thing interests me. I assume that's a method of retaining yeast for another brew rather than harvesting it afterwards, or in some cases just needing a much higher cell count?

Yes, for me it's a 'clean' method of retaining yeast for the next brew rather than having to pay for a new pack each time.

Going by what you said above, I assume a stir plate is pretty neccessary for this to ensure the decent actually contains plenty of yeast.... Unsure whether my "shake whenever I walk past" would cut it in this instance.

The starter calculators (like this one) have a 'Method of Aeration' option. Without a stir plate it'll calculate a bigger starter to compensate.

 

[samale]

The starter calculators (like this one) have a 'Method of Aeration' option. Without a stir plate it'll calculate a bigger starter to compensate.

That's the stage I am at until I get a stir plate. Everything seems to be coming from China with a long delivery date.

 

[foxbat]

The starter calculators (like this one) have a 'Method of Aeration' option. Without a stir plate it'll calculate a bigger starter to compensate.

That's the stage I am at until I get a stir plate. Everything seems to be coming from China with a long delivery date.

Have you seen the 'build your own for a tenner thread'? Though I guess if you've got one en-route from China you won't want to be spending more on making your own.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Yes, for me it's a 'clean' method of retaining yeast for the next brew rather than having to pay for a new pack each time.

The starter calculators (like this one) have a 'Method of Aeration' option. Without a stir plate it'll calculate a bigger starter to compensate.

Nice. Finally, and just tell me if I am being thick.... Wouldnt I acheive the same results but with less possibility for error by making up a big starter then pouring some off straight away whilst it's definitely a homogenous mix then just letting them both ferment down, then pitch one and fridge one?

 

[foxbat]

Nice. Finally, and just tell me if I am being thick.... Wouldnt I acheive the same results but with less possibility for error by making up a big starter then pouring some off straight away whilst it's definitely a homogenous mix then just letting them both ferment down, then pitch one and fridge one?

I think we may be saying the same thing using different words but I'm not sure what you mean by 'pour some off straight away'. Yes you do ferment the whole lot in one flask and when fully done you separate off your jar for the next brew while it's all a homogenous mix and the majority that's left goes in the beer.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I think we may be saying the same thing using different words but I'm not sure what you mean by 'pour some off straight away'. Yes you do ferment the whole lot in one flask and when fully done you separate off your jar for the next brew while it's all a homogenous mix and the majority that's left goes in the beer.

Aye, just when you said earlier how quickly some yeasts floc in the flask, I thought maybe the most homogenous mix and even split of yeast/wort might be right at the beginning, obviously a vigorous shake at the end would work but might still be sone clumps depending on the yeast. Either way, I will gove overbuilding a try I think.

 

[foxbat]

Well after all my whinging about the Imperian Barbarian A04 yeast that I used in my Flagstaff IPA No.2 being a slow flocculator I forgot to post a piccy of the beer itself, so here it is:

I still prefer my first version of this brew, the Endeavour hops really do it for me and I really must buy some more. Plus I don't think Maris Otter needs Munich malt and could easily stand alone here. Nevertheless this has turned out to be a really drinkable English IPA with the characteristic full mouthfeel that you get from the Vermont yeast.

 

[Nicks90]

That looks lovely

 

[foxbat]

Today was forecast to be nice and sunny so I was up early and brewing at 6:00am so I'd be all wrapped up by midday and ready to relax in the warm afternoon. I'm calling today's brew, SSA or "Simple Summer Ale" inspired by Hopback Summer Lightning.

Recipe: SSA (Simple Summer Ale)
Batch Size (fermenter): 24.00 L   
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated IBU: 31.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
water profile: Ca:28, Mg:3, Na:9, SO4:10, Cl:44
 
Ingredients:
------------
Amt              Name                                             Type          #          %/IBU    
29.64 L          Tesco Ashbeck                                    Water         1          -        
3.40 ml          Lactic Acid (Mash)                               Water Agent   2          -        
1.20 g           Calcium Chloride (Mash)                          Water Agent   3          -        
4.61 kg          Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner (4.0 EBC)             Grain         4          100.0 %  
0.30 g           Calcium Chloride (Sparge)                        Water Agent   5          -        
0.20 ml          Lactic Acid (Sparge)                             Water Agent   6          -        
18.00 g          Hallertau Magnum [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min       Hop           7          22.7 IBUs
23.00 g          Celeia [2.54 %] - Boil 15.0 min                  Hop           8          3.0 IBUs 
32.00 g          Celeia [2.54 %] - Boil 10.0 min                  Hop           9          3.1 IBUs 
45.00 g          Celeia [2.54 %] - Boil 5.0 min                   Hop           10         2.4 IBUs 
1.0 pkg          Vermont Ale (Yeast Bay #-)                       Yeast         11         -        

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.61 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 24.64 L of water at 69.3 C          66.0 C        60 min        

Sparge: Dunk sparge with 5 L of water at 75 C

The Celeia hops for today's brew were bought on a whim whilst I was buying yeast from the Malt Miller. At less than 4 quid for a 100g of Styrian Goldings I though why not? They'd make a great summer brew.

I don't usually buy leaf hops but this is all they had.

I fell short of the predicted pre-boil gravity by a couple of points which seems to be a recurring theme with the Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner Malt so I added 140g of Dextrose during the boil to compensate and that seemed to do the trick.

I transferred 23.5 litres to the fermenter after chilling down to 26C with the immersion chiller.

OG after compensating for the pre-boil shortfall was 1.045, exactly as planned. The wort went in the brew-fridge at 26C and had chilled to 19C by this evening so I pitched the 1 litre starter of WLP4000 Vermont Ale yeast. The keg that will hold this beer is rigged up to the fermenter outlet so it'll be purged with CO2 during fermentation.

 

[foxbat]

Today was kegging day for my Simple Summer Ale. The keg itself was pre-purged with the CO2 generated during fermentation and I just cracked the lid and piped it in from the fermenter in the hope that the slowly rising beer will create a positive pressure of CO2 leaving the keg that'll keep the air at bay.

FG was 1.007, exactly as Beersmith predicted giving a final ABV of 5.0%. The keg was fined with Kwik-Clear and the small head space purged with 5x15psi bursts. It's now on at about 12psi to condition and carbonate for a couple of weeks.

The sample in the jar tasted ace. Really light and very floral from the 100g of late Styrian Goldings in the recipe. I'm looking forward to this one.

 

[Pennine]

so what do you think of the bohemian pilsner? i was tempted to pick up a sack but it was twice as much as the hook head lager and i wanted to try that as well. would be fun to do a side by side.

also does celeia give the dirt or soil type flavor fuggles does? have you tried it before?

 

[foxbat]

so what do you think of the bohemian pilsner? i was tempted to pick up a sack but it was twice as much as the hook head lager and i wanted to try that as well. would be fun to do a side by side.

also does celeia give the dirt or soil type flavor fuggles does? have you tried it before?

I like the Bohemian Pils a lot. The flavour I get from it is the typical high quality European Pilsner lager flavour. Sweet and malty without any nutty or breadiness. It can be expensive compared to malts grown locally to the shop but the prices at GEB for 25kg are pretty good and 25kg will last me about 6 brews.

I have used Celeia before but it was years ago and it was blended with Bobek and Hersbrucker as I recall so it's hard to remember. I took a good swig of the sample jar from this one and just got floral from the Celeia and bitterness from the Magnum. When it's all conditioned I'll be able to make a better call.

 

[matt76]

I've never done an exact back to back, but I made my first Helles using pilsner malt, and shortly after a pseudo Helles using lager malt...

...Different hops, slightly different IBUs, different yeasts, so it's not a fair comparison...

But both were very good and as I recall there wasn't much between them. So there might be an argument that you can take your choice.

Interestingly I listened recently to Basic Brewing Radio's malt sampler comparing Briess Pilsner with 6 row and 2 row malt - they were very surprised how easily they could tell them apart.

Steve made an interesting point on the show that, since no shop stocks all the possible base malts, one might do such a comparison between the base malts stocked by your LHBS to better understand what difference, if any, it makes to your brewing. Interesting idea...

 

[foxbat]

Well that's the last of my Cash & Coe ale gone tonight, and rather quickly too. The tropical fruit flavour from Galaxy, Cashmere and Simcoe lasted right up until the keg coughed its last gasp. One to brew again for sure.

Sorry no beer photo this time. I did try last night but the humidity at the moment meant that my beer glasses were instantly covered in condensation the moment I poured a pint!

An empty keg means brew day next weekend. It'll be another Outback Ale with Galaxy and Nelson Sauvin fermented with WLP4000. More on that later...

 

[matt76]

I was just looking back at the recipe for this:
The hop timings are interesting, all very late, even the Simcoe bittering charge - I take it you still got enough bitterness?

I've been wondering lately about the difference between layering hops (ie different hops at different times) versus effectively adding a blend as you're doing here. Any thoughts is it makes much difference? Tricky to layer them in practice though when you've got to add so many hops withing a 15 minute window!

I note the 2 min addition - is this just your preference over whirlpooling? Also, I take it you didn't dry hop?

What and why is the Crystal Maple malt? It can't be for colour - is it something like Carapils maybe?

 

[foxbat]

I was just looking back at the recipe for this:
The hop timings are interesting, all very late, even the Simcoe bittering charge - I take it you still got enough bitterness?

I've been wondering lately about the difference between layering hops (ie different hops at different times) versus effectively adding a blend as you're doing here. Any thoughts is it makes much difference? Tricky to layer them in practice though when you've got to add so many hops withing a 15 minute window! I note the 2 min addition - is this just your preference over whirlpooling?

I started doing the 15/10/5 (or similar) timings and weight ratios for hoppy beers after having a stunning triple hop IPA by The Kernel brewery and emailing them hoping for the recipe. They replied and I posted it here. The timings get adjusted downwards if beersmith tells me that I get too much bitterness at 15/10/5. I still boil for an hour because all my volume and gravity calculations are based on that.

Also, I take it you didn't dry hop?

That's right, I never dry hop. Well, I did for a while years back but got nothing out of it that I don't get from late additions. Must be my bad sense of smell. Once my fermenter is sealed airtight it stays that way until kegging.

What and why is the Crystal Maple malt? It can't be for colour - is it something like Carapils maybe?

It's Carapils that doesn't infringe Weyermann's registered trade mark on that name. Ireks named all of their crystals after trees. I'm basically using up what I've got.