foxbat's brewdays

[Hazelwood Brewery]

My Kristall Pilsner German Pils is now a month in the keg and is tasting just as good as the first time I brewed this. I'm serving this at 6C from my keezer tonight:

Shame the condensation on the glass messes with the picture because this is now perfectly crisp and clear. Pilsner malt + Tettnang hops + Wyeast 2308 is a great combination.

That looks nice @foxbat , I’m not so keen on lagers but I’d be tempted by that fine looking pint.

 

[emerson909]

My Kristall Pilsner German Pils is now a month in the keg and is tasting just as good as the first time I brewed this. I'm serving this at 6C from my keezer tonight:

Shame the condensation on the glass messes with the picture because this is now perfectly crisp and clear. Pilsner malt + Tettnang hops + Wyeast 2308 is a great combination.

Looks great

What sort of head retention do you get with these type of beers? I’ve brewed a couple of helles with same malt and yeast and seem to get poor head retention. Not sure if it’s down to the ingredients or something in the process.

 

[foxbat]

Looks great

What sort of head retention do you get with these type of beers? I’ve brewed a couple of helles with same malt and yeast and seem to get poor head retention. Not sure if it’s down to the ingredients or something in the process.

I get a thin white head that follows the beer down to the bottom of the glass., possibly aided by the higher carbonation level in lager? Here's what the glass looks like afterwards:

 

[chrisb8]

Shame the condensation on the glass messes with the picture

Still massively jealous of your photos

 

[foxbat]

It's brewday this Sunday and this time I'm planning a tribute to a lager that I really enjoy: Peroni Nastro Azzuro. Not the bland stuff in the bottles but the smooth, ultra pale and bright pint you get from a well kept keg. A bit of web research yielded the following information from their own website:

• It's 75% 2-row barley and 25% corn.

• The hops are Hallertau Magnum and Czech Saaz.

• The water is soft and low in carbonates.

That really just leaves the hopping rate and the yeast. Clearly the Magnum is the bittering hop and the Saaz is for flavouring. I'll add a bit more Saaz than I think they'll be using because I love the stuff, I'll bitter to about 25 IBU and I've selected Imperial L28 Urkel as the yeast.

So here it is, Phoney Peroni:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Recipe: Phoney Peroni
Batch Size (fermenter): 24.00 L 
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 5.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Finished water profile: Ca:28, Mg:3, Na:9, SO4:10, Cl:44

Ingredients:
------------
Amt         Name                                        Type          #   %/IBU      Volume     
29.55 L     Tesco Ashbeck                               Water         1   -          -           
3.30 ml     Lactic Acid (Mash)                          Water Agent   2   -          -           
1.20 g      Calcium Chloride (Mash)                     Water Agent   3   -          -           
3.40 kg     Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner (4.0 EBC)        Grain         4   77.3 %     2.22 L     
1.00 kg     Crisp Flaked Torrefied Maize (1.3 EBC)      Grain         5   22.7 %     0.65 L     
0.30 g      Calcium Chloride (Sparge)                   Water Agent   6   -          -           
0.20 ml     Lactic Acid (Sparge)                        Water Agent   7   -          -           
13.00 g     Hallertau Magnum [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min  Hop           8   16.6 IBUs  -           
10.00 g     Saaz [4.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min               Hop           9   2.7 IBUs   -           
15.00 g     Saaz [4.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min               Hop           10  3.0 IBUs   -           
1.00 Items  Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 7.0 mins)            Fining        11  -          -           
25.00 g     Saaz [4.70 %] - Boil 5.0 min                Hop           12  2.7 IBUs   -           
1.0 pkg     Urkel (Imperial Yeast #L28)                 Yeast         13  -          -           

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.40 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time   
Mash In           Add 24.55 L of water at 69.2 C          66.0 C        90 min     

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 13.90L) of 75.6 C water

The fun starts tomorrow evening when I'll prepare a 2.5 litre starter of the L28 yeast. 2 litres will go into the brew and I'll keep back a half litre for next time.

 

[dhendy91]

Phoney Peroni! Love it! Will be keeping a close eye on this one as it is the beer a lot of my family tend to drink so would be god to have it on hand!

 

[matt76]

Likewise, yeah I love the name

Looking at that recipe with Saaz hops, a (presumably) Czech yeast strain and very soft water then what you've got yourself there is essentially a Czech pilsner, no?

(You've also done a straight Czech Pils once or twice before right?)

When I did my 2 Pilsners recently I opted for a metric buttload of Saaz/Tettnang in each but I did consider using Magnum as a bittering hop - curious to know if it makes much difference in a Pilsner where there isn't much room to hide. Certainly at first tasting (well, bottling) it wasn't exactly night and day between the two as I made them.

I'm always curious how to interpret "2 row" or indeed "6 row" as the base malt in these recipes you find online - do you happen to know the answer?

I see you've gone for Pils malt - I would basically just go for Maris Otter or Golden Promise, or if it's a really light coloured beer either pilsner, Bohemian pilsner or lager malt.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Another very interested party here as my next brew is Greg Hughes Mexican Cerveza which I assume to be a Corona type clone although my research indicates different hops....

Anyway, good work Foxbat and look forward to hearing about this

 

[chrisb8]

It's brewday this Sunday and this time I'm planning a tribute to a lager that I really enjoy: Peroni Nastro Azzuro. Not the bland stuff in the bottles but the smooth, ultra pale and bright pint you get from a well kept keg. A bit of web research yielded the following information from their own website:

• It's 75% 2-row barley and 25% corn.

• The hops are Hallertau Magnum and Czech Saaz.

• The water is soft and low in carbonates.

That really just leaves the hopping rate and the yeast. Clearly the Magnum is the bittering hop and the Saaz is for flavouring. I'll add a bit more Saaz than I think they'll be using because I love the stuff, I'll bitter to about 25 IBU and I've selected Imperial L28 Urkel as the yeast.

So here it is, Phoney Peroni:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Recipe: Phoney Peroni
Batch Size (fermenter): 24.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 5.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Finished water profile: Ca:28, Mg:3, Na:9, SO4:10, Cl:44

Ingredients:
------------
Amt         Name                                        Type          #   %/IBU      Volume    
29.55 L     Tesco Ashbeck                               Water         1   -          -          
3.30 ml     Lactic Acid (Mash)                          Water Agent   2   -          -          
1.20 g      Calcium Chloride (Mash)                     Water Agent   3   -          -          
3.40 kg     Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner (4.0 EBC)        Grain         4   77.3 %     2.22 L    
1.00 kg     Crisp Flaked Torrefied Maize (1.3 EBC)      Grain         5   22.7 %     0.65 L    
0.30 g      Calcium Chloride (Sparge)                   Water Agent   6   -          -          
0.20 ml     Lactic Acid (Sparge)                        Water Agent   7   -          -          
13.00 g     Hallertau Magnum [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min  Hop           8   16.6 IBUs  -          
10.00 g     Saaz [4.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min               Hop           9   2.7 IBUs   -          
15.00 g     Saaz [4.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min               Hop           10  3.0 IBUs   -          
1.00 Items  Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 7.0 mins)            Fining        11  -          -          
25.00 g     Saaz [4.70 %] - Boil 5.0 min                Hop           12  2.7 IBUs   -          
1.0 pkg     Urkel (Imperial Yeast #L28)                 Yeast         13  -          -          

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.40 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time  
Mash In           Add 24.55 L of water at 69.2 C          66.0 C        90 min    

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 13.90L) of 75.6 C water

The fun starts tomorrow evening when I'll prepare a 2.5 litre starter of the L28 yeast. 2 litres will go into the brew and I'll keep back a half litre for next time.

I did my own version of Phoney Peroni last summer and it's interesting how similar our recipes (and the name ) are

My only gripe is that I seem to find the amount of flaked corn used seems to give it a slightly sweet flavour rather than the dry crispness of the original. However, I seem to find this with all the beers I have brewed with flaked corn

 

[foxbat]

I did my own version of Phoney Peroni last summer and it's interesting how similar our recipes (and the name ) are

My only gripe is that I seem to find the amount of flaked corn used seems to give it a slightly sweet flavour rather than the dry crispness of the original. However, I seem to find this with all the beers I have brewed with flaked corn

I honestly hadn't seen yours. Great minds thinking alike I guess! What gravity did yours finish at? I find that everything I brew finishes dry - typically between 1.004 and 1.008 which suits me perfectly because I don't like sweet beers.

 

[foxbat]

Looking at that recipe with Saaz hops, a (presumably) Czech yeast strain and very soft water then what you've got yourself there is essentially a Czech pilsner, no?

The corn sets it apart from a Czech Pils - it'll lighten the body in quite a similar way to an American Cream Ale.

(You've also done a straight Czech Pils once or twice before right?)

Yes, loved it! Here it is. Basically a Pilsner malt/Saaz SMASH. Finished dry at 1.004 using WY2278 and was nice and crisp after a couple of weeks in the keezer.

When I did my 2 Pilsners recently I opted for a metric buttload of Saaz/Tettnang in each but I did consider using Magnum as a bittering hop - curious to know if it makes much difference in a Pilsner where there isn't much room to hide. Certainly at first tasting (well, bottling) it wasn't exactly night and day between the two as I made them.

I doubt I'd spot the difference between Saaz and Magnum as the bittering hop and with Magnum it's authentic for this recipe and I get to use less than half as much. I definitely can tell the difference between Saaz and Tettnang flavour hops though. Saaz is spice then herbal for me whereas Tettnang is more herbal and then subtle spice. Both top-notch hops IMHO.

I'm always curious how to interpret "2 row" or indeed "6 row" as the base malt in these recipes you find online - do you happen to know the answer?

Only from what I've found on the net which seems to be that we get 2-row in Europe and the US gets 6 row.

I see you've gone for Pils malt - I would basically just go for Maris Otter or Golden Promise, or if it's a really light coloured beer either pilsner, Bohemian pilsner or lager malt.

I wouldn't personally use a UK malt for a European lager. I haven't tried it so I wouldn't know how it would compare but it wouldn't feel right.

 

[chrisb8]

I honestly hadn't seen yours. Great minds thinking alike I guess! What gravity did yours finish at? I find that everything I brew finishes dry - typically between 1.004 and 1.008 which suits me perfectly because I don't like sweet beers.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/posts/822517/
I have to admit that I didn't come up with the name, my other half did. I was going to call it Cloney Peroni which would have been s**t

Looking back at my notes mine went from 1.047 to 1.010 using saflager s23

 

[chrisb8]

Recipe:
2kg Pilsen
0.8kg flaked corn
0.2kg carapils
0.2kg torrified wheat
10g magnum @ 60
10g saaz @ 20
10g saaz @ 0
15L batch
28 IBU
5.7 EBC

 

[foxbat]

Recipe:
2kg Pilsen
0.8kg flaked corn
0.2kg carapils
0.2kg torrified wheat
10g magnum @ 60
10g saaz @ 20
10g saaz @ 0
15L batch
28 IBU
5.7 EBC

Definitely very similar to mine. I think I'll drop my mash temperature to 65C like I did with the Czech Pils to see if I can get it to finish around 1.005.

 

[chrisb8]

Just remembered that this was the last stove top brew I did after the carbon monoxide alarm went off after I had finished the boil and my partner later reported a headache and dizziness. A wake up call indeed...

 

[foxbat]

I got the yeast starter on this evening with a nice looking pack of Imperial Urkel:

The starter's now on the stir plate. 2.5 litres of Ashbeck and 250g of DME.

 

[chrisb8]

Definitely very similar to mine. I think I'll drop my mash temperature to 65C like I did with the Czech Pils to see if I can get it to finish around 1.005.

That's something I will bear in mind for next time as I'd really like mine to finish drier

 

[Zephyr259]

The starter's now on the stir plate. 2.5 litres of Ashbeck and 250g of DME.

Why don't you just use tap water in your starter? Do you have crazy water?

 

[foxbat]

Why don't you just use tap water in your starter? Do you have crazy water?

It is exceptionally hard at over 330ppm bicarbonates and I've always got spare bottles of Ashbeck in the cupboard that need using up so they go into starters and Star-San dilutions. Cost is not an issue.

 

[foxbat]

Had a quick peek at the starter after 24hrs and there's a small krausen. I'll see what it looks like tomorrow and either switch it off then or give it another 24 hours. I do like to give the lager starters a couple of days in the cold after fermentation so I can decant off most of the spent wort even though the Brulosophy folks did an experiment where they chucked something like 4 litres of starter into a lager and people couldn't taste the difference!