Flavour issues with Wyeast 1335 British Ale II

[biggtime]

I've had issues with 3 AG beers in a row. There's an odd taste they all have in common that I'm struggling to identify - it usually kicks in early, and is more prominent if you take some air in with the mouthful.

One person has suggested fusels, another oxidation, and another phenols. I'm not sure any of these quite fit - but then my palate may not be experienced enough to tell. What all three quite different ales (a golden, a spicy Christmas ale, and a best bitter) have in common is that for each I used Wyeast 1335 British Ale II (http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain ... cfm?ID=141).

I was just wondering if anyone else had had any issues with this yeast affecting their flavour profile? It could, of course, be something else (fermentation temps, oxidation, possibly even the hops), but the yeast is the common factor at the mo. Doesn't seem infected, and none of the off-flavours described here (http://morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors) quite seem to hit the nail on the head (to my palate, anyway). Any thoughts?

I'm going to brew the next beer with Saf-04 and play completely safe to see if that changes anything.

 

[paulgough]

Can you describe the flavour?

Does it remind you of anything?

 

[biggtime]

Not really. That's the problem I'm having - and others have struggled a bit too. I suppose I get the impression it is a little plasticky perhaps, or a little chemically, which fits the phenols profile a little. But that's not what others (including pro brewers) have tasted. Some suggested possible oxidation, others fusels. Two of the three beers have barely reached condition, so maybe it will settle out. The first (the Golden) may well have fermented a little hot so I think there is a hint of fusel alcohol there, but probably not in the more recent two.

I suppose there's a chance it could be coming from hops in some way...

 

[paulgough]

Some of the stronger beers I've brewed have tasted a bit odd while young but have improved and smoothed out with time.

I hope they turn out OK :thumb:

 

[biggtime]

Let's hope so. Would still love to know what's causing it though.

 

[zgoda]

This is the cleanest of all English range from Wyeast, almost as clean as US-05. Some say it's bland and boring but I like it, very reliable and easy. Good attenuation, flocculation too. I'd rather look at fermentation environment, was yeast cell count appropriate (did you make a starter?), temperature at early stages, aeration, and so on.

 

[biggtime]

This is the cleanest of all English range from Wyeast, almost as clean as US-05. Some say it's bland and boring but I like it, very reliable and easy. Good attenuation, flocculation too. I'd rather look at fermentation environment, was yeast cell count appropriate (did you make a starter?), temperature at early stages, aeration, and so on.

I was using a smackpack, for a 5-gallon brew each time, so in theory didn't need a starter (according to the packet). Presumably yeast cell count should have been high enough. Aerated the wort each time. Pitched at around 23/24 degrees maximum. Definitely lower on at least one occasion. Actual ferm temps have been a little difficult to control - a cold house generally, and no reliably warm 'spot' to site the FV, but the last batch fermented pretty cool and although it is very young right now, I can still taste a hint of the same 'problem'. Was less obvious after the beer had been out for a while, and also less obvious if no air taken in when tasting.

I am planning to build a temp controlled fridge before my next brew so that I can at least (hopefully) rule that problem out.

 

[Pinchy]

I'm pretty new to this but as its happening regularly I don't suppose it could be an issue with your water at all could it?

 

[biggtime]

I'm pretty new to this but as its happening regularly I don't suppose it could be an issue with your water at all could it?

To be honest, it could potentially be anything I suppose. Yeast seemed a likely suspect as I didn't have this problem with my kit brews and first couple of AG brews. I treated the water for the last brew and can still detect this 'off'-flavour at this point. Treatment was based on the generic water report for the general area. The previous brew hadn't really been treated at all and has the same off flavour. Just half a campden and 5gms gypsum in the boil for that one - and the same issue.

 

[rpt]

Those packs are for 5 US gallons i.e. 19L. Were you slightly under pitching? Although I don't know if it would matter much.

 

[biggtime]

Now, I hadn't taken that into account. What might be the outcome of initially underpitching? Fermentation seemed to start off pretty well...

 

[Wezzel]

Shouldn't be a major issue. My last few brews have been with Wyeast and the last two with Wyeast 1335. I have always pitched them directly into 25 litres of wort and they have taken off like a rocket.

I do pick mine up from the homebrew shop in person though, keep them cold and get them straight into the fridge until I am ready to warm them up for pitching. That may have and effect on the number of active cells.

 

[zgoda]

I learned hard way to always make starter from Wyeast packs, no matter how fresh. I've seen lab analysis of 1 month old package bought from local shop and the cell count was like 25% declared by manufacturer.

Check if you still have this issue with freshly harvested yeast (top cropped or slurry).