Fitting a Tap to a Thermopot - need advice please

[Spapro]

Nothings ever simple !

My lovely new Thermopot has arrived from ze Germans, with a tap but was hoping to be able to throw the tap provided and fit a decent tap and make a copper pipe filter for the bottom (using as a mashtun).

Anyway, the thermopot has arrived with a 24-25mm external skin hole and a smaller 15mm hole through the inner skin.

Any ideas on anything I can use with the current holes to marry up inner filter and outer tap ?

If not and I have to drill a larger internal hole - what bits do I need to marry up filter and external tap ?

Hoping someone can help, I am quite handy but always happy to learn from others experience !

Here is picture of the current holes and tap (think the tap is a throw away, can't use any of it as all cast in one piece.)

 

[Dutto]

I was hoping someone else would pick up on this - sorry!

The tap is obviously shaped for the specific job of fitting to the Thermopot so personally I would be loathe to change the tap itself for anything that didn't have that distinctive barrel design.

A trip to your local plumbing store with the tap itself should turn up a threaded fitting that can be soldered to a 15mm copper pipe. With the tap in place you should have sufficient thread inside the pot to lightly screw a threaded connector inside. It will probably look like the one on the end of the copper tubing in the photo. None of the connections are soldered because (like the one you're are planning) the filter needs to be taken apart for cleaning.

Whilst in the plumbing store, look out for a flexible connector like this ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B013DLLFFQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0011JEZCI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Either way, make sure that it fits and that you can still open the valve before leaving the shop!

With the adaptor, you can attach a short length of hose to the tap when you need to drain it off to something that isn't sat right beneath the tap itself.

Finally, the valve must come apart. The quarter turn means that it is either a ball valve or (more likely) a plug valve. Where your thumb is on the photograph there will probably be a small nut that can be removed and the valve plug itself lifted up vertically. The small nut is usually used to increase the pressure on the sealing faces which are more than likely "metal-to-metal" rather than one with a rubber, nylon or other kind of soft seal. This means that if it starts to leak it can be removed, cleaned, reinstated (with the tiniest smear of Vaseline or Olive Oil as a lubricant) and then retightened to seal.

If there is no small nut on the underside of the valve then access must be possible via the handle at the top.

One other benefit of not changing out the valve is that you can always get a replacement from the original seller! :thumb:

Hope this helps. :thumb:

 

[Fil]

Yes you need a bigger external skin hole to gain access and a smaller sealable inner skin hole for fixing the connector you select.

You cant seal between the 2 skins without engineering precise sized supports to take the compression thrust the thin skins and foam insulation just cant support the compression forces needed to create a good seal.

To use the usual 1/2" fittings and valves the inner hole will need expanding to 20-21mm and the external hole will need expanding to provide access.

OR you could look at smaller sized fittings, the wikipedia entry on bsp pipe sizes has a nice table with a inner and outer thread dimension in mm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe

looks like 3/8" thread may squeeze thru a 15mm hole

if concerened about flow rate, most the SS 1 and 2 part ball valves used are not full bore so if you use a 3/8" full bore ball valve you will probably have a larger flow rate than some with 1/2" fittings/valves :)


If using 3/8" fittings ebay some M16 or M17 SS washers (ebay) and you should then be able to create the seal with the inner skin. Then use something like a barrel nipple (f/f) to extend thru the insulated void with a slightly larger SS washer used to cover up the hole and void, a squidge of silicone or decoraters caulk in the void should be sufficient to retain the SS washer to hide the hole n void then plumb in your tap etc...

bes.co.uk is a good source for SS pipe fittings..
ebay for SS washers
and ebay for chinese sourced 3part full bore ss valves (price makes the week or 2 wait worthwhile - or at least did ..)

hope thats useful

 

[Spapro]

Thanks guys, some good ideas to mull over there.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
3/8" may be a tad wide for a 15mm hole, but you'd definitely get a 1/4" fitting through, and the extra ~1mm won't be a problem if you had a good seal.
You could use a 1/4" to 1/2" reducing hexagon nipple and a 1/2" running nipple. Put a nut on that will hold the running nipple to the outer skin. (Of course, the nut will not be compressing the fitting to the outer skin - merely holding it lightly).
One other solution would be to leave the current tap in position and cut a new 21mm hole for 1/2" fittings.

EDIT
I found this: http://forum.craftbrewing.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6423
It suggests that the current tap can be removed from the nipple; it has 1/2" BSP thread so a 1/2" tap can be added easily (although he uses 15mm).

2nd EDIT
Just realised that your tap is a one-piece jobbie

 

[Spapro]

Thanks Bigfoot, the supplied tap definately does not dismantle in a useful way I can use to bolt onto, they must have changed what they supply tap wise.

Anyway, I have ordered a male 3/8" to female 1/2" nipple plus a 1/2" running nipple to see where that gets me. Will keep you all posted on progress from here.

Thanks again to you all for your advice:thumb:

 

[Clint]

Bugger thought bigcol had it sorted...hope it works out!

Cheers

Clint

 

[Fil]

you will need a 3/8" locknut or female threaded fitting to attach any interior plumbing to, and create the seal, and any internal siphon employed to minimise deadspace.

It may also be worthwhile considering making the initial 90 degree downward facing aspect of the external plumbing with SS pipe fittings, and perhaps terminate with a hosetail pointing downward ..

Also a couple of M17 (17mm interior diameter) SS washers. (one inside, one outside to compresss and take the thrust..

to aid the seal you could get away with a good healthy wrapp of ptfe.. though a diy washer cut from a a silicone baking sheet or a cake mould with a slightly under cut inner hole you need to stretch and position up the male thread makes a pretty foolproof soft heatsafe and foodsafe seal

 

[Spapro]

Noticed last night when fiddling in the garage that the Thermopot is quite badly dented where one of the catches is fixed to the side :-( means the side skin doesn't quite meet tightly with the inner skin. On with Bergland now to try and get it sorted, they want photos which is fairy snuff, will send and see what they say.

 

[Fil]

Not quite sure i understand?? can you snap a pic to illustrate??

if there is a break in the skin you can illustrate in a 2d photo by pushing paper or a wire paper clip or any visible item into the gap void.

a ding or dent isnt really a problem beyond aesthetics however a break in the inner skins seal is a problem needing addressing.



fwiw ive had to return a thermopot due to a manufacturing problem and it was all sorted quite painlessly once photographic evidence had been sent..

thank goodness you discovered before hacking the pot

and it gives you a week or so extra to plan

 

[Spapro]

Here is the damage, I have decided to send it back for replacement, want it to be right.

Bergland have been great so far, they are collecting the pot for return tomorrow to exchange the pot for a new one - hopefully the new one will arrive in one piece.

 

[Fil]

aye thats a bit more than a ding.. since having the 1 return myself i would always suggest ignoring any protests of the delivery chap and open and inspect any pot delivery before signing to accept, its a quick tape breach and 2 flap lift to get access to a pot and takes less time to check than arguing about it would.

while bergland will in my limited experience replace on receipt of the damaged one if you send it back without accepting it the replacement should be with you a week sooner..

 

[Dutto]

........... i would always suggest ignoring any protests of the delivery chap and open and inspect any pot delivery before signing to accept, ...........

I entirely agree! :thumb:

However, it's so easy to blame the drivers (admittedly, some of them should have been strangled at birth) that we forget that most of them are working to an incredibly tight schedule ...

... so I always try to give positive feedback when a delivery goes well. :thumb:

 

[Spapro]

aye thats a bit more than a ding.. since having the 1 return myself i would always suggest ignoring any protests of the delivery chap and open and inspect any pot delivery before signing to accept, its a quick tape breach and 2 flap lift to get access to a pot and takes less time to check than arguing about it would.

while bergland will in my limited experience replace on receipt of the damaged one if you send it back without accepting it the replacement should be with you a week sooner..

Yes, I will be inspecting the replacement carefully when it arrives with the courier.

As mentioned, Bergland have been great so far, and its not their fault if some numpty in a DPD sorting depot drops the box !

The dented pot should be collected today for return.

 

[Fil]

Good to hear your getting sorted, based on my own experiences its as i would expect the extra delay however is a pita especially when you have all the other bits needed for the build sat waiting

they did stop shipping to the UK a while back and losses due to courier damage were cited as a main reason.

 

[Dutto]

I entirely agree! :thumb:

However, it's so easy to blame the drivers (admittedly, some of them should have been strangled at birth) that we forget that most of them are working to an incredibly tight schedule ...

... so I always try to give positive feedback when a delivery goes well. :thumb:

I hate quoting myself but ...

Today SWMBO decided to go swimming and forgot to put out the "I'm in the garden!" sign.

By chance I happened to go into the house and sticking out of the letterbox was a note that said "Your Hermes Driver has delivered your package." and scribbled in the slot provided "It's at the back of the van."

It was raining "cats and dogs" and the package was soaked, but the driver was extremely lucky to have "delivered" a waterproof cover for the quad. :thumb: :thumb:

I won't be showering any praise on today's driver though! :whistle: :whistle:

 

[Spapro]

Some progress ..

Bergland replaced the dented pot, received the new thermopot on Friday. Bergland have been brilliant sorting this out without any fuss.

Have decided to go with a 1/2" fittings, so drilled a 40mm hole through the outside skin and QMax punched a 20mm hole through the inner skin. Waiting on a tap arriving now with a 75mm running nipple and assorted nuts and washers etc.

Picked up a pack of lampshade reducer washers from my hardware shop yesterday which will act nicely as blanking plates to cover the larger outer hole, held in place with a rubber washer, metal washer and nut.

In hindsight would have been better to have gone for the thermopot without tap, can't use the tap and would have been easier making my holes from scratch without holes already there to complicate the drilling process.

Anyway, here is a photo of my holes - as the actress said to the bishop !

 

[Fil]

may i suggest a small 5cm cd/dvd as a disguise plate to hide the external cut eaasy to drill out the centre and shiny side out should look pretty good

 

[Spapro]

may i suggest a small 5cm cd/dvd as a disguise plate to hide the external cut eaasy to drill out the centre and shiny side out should look pretty good

Nice thought Fil, I've already picked up the lampshade reducers (for pennies), they have a 60mm outer diameter with a hole already cut and a nice recessed 40mm diameter shape to them which will locate in the hole nicely. They have a nice kind of brushed aluminium finish to them so look the part as well.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice, I will post some pics/details of the parts used once assembled - may help others at some point struggling as I was.

 

[Spapro]

Its taken a while, and I've used the thermopot a couple if times with a makeshift tap fitted, but now got the bits together for a permanent tap fitting.

Thought this may help others trying to fit a tap to a thermopot.

All based on cutting a 21mm hole to the inner skin and a 40mm hole to the outer skin.

Most important bit is a 75mm (60mm would do) running nipple to get you through the cavity and give enough either side for attaching the tap outside and manifold or whatever inside.

First picture is an exploded photo with parts list added, very happy with the results and leak testing was all good last night: