First time using Safale S04

[Hop_it]

No, some are much more mobile e.g. I just couldn't get on with the Crossmyloof ale yeast, it didn't compact at all, Safale US-05 also doesn't seem to be great at compacting.

Interesting comment about the CML ale yeast. Is that the one they call "Four"? I recently brewed a Jennings Cocker Hoop clone with this (from Graham Wheeler's "Brew Your Own British Real Ale"). It was the first time I'd used it, and it did all the right things during fermentation. It was at 20 degC, and got going quickly from a 1l starter. It fermented down to 1.006, which was a bit lower than I had expected, but nevertheless I thought that this was OK because I prefer my beers to have a dry finish. But the beer was very disappointing in just about every respect. It's not off, but has a yeasty smell and a strange aftertaste - which I can only attribute to the yeast. In addition to that the yeast is very mobile, even after ~2 months in the bottles. Unless somebody convinces me otherwise I don't think I'll be using it again

 

[Sandimas]

Interesting comment about the CML ale yeast. Is that the one they call "Four"?

Dunno, it was a fair few years ago now when they started selling yeast: I only started recording what yeast I used in my brews from 2015 and it was before that. I gave it a fair chance, 4/5 brews, but every one came out cloudy with yeast mixed in, no matter how careful I poured it, so I gave up.

 

[Hop_it]

Dunno, it was a fair few years ago now when they started selling yeast: I only started recording what yeast I used in my brews from 2015 and it was before that. I gave it a fair chance, 4/5 brews, but every one came out cloudy with yeast mixed in, no matter how careful I poured it, so I gave up.

Maybe I was unlucky and bought a duff packet. I got it back at the end of October from a local brew pub who also (re)sell a few CML ingredients (a basic selection of grains, hops, and yeasts). It then stayed in the fridge until I needed it. There are so many other reliable sources of yeast around, I'll try something else next time I'm making that style of beer. The S-04 has worked well for me in the past.

 

[moto748]

S-04 struggles more with dark beers and can stall, thread here S-04 under-attenuating for dark beers

It was my go-to yeast for many years, mainly because I bottle most of my brews and as the OP noted, it produces a really clear beer and rock-solid sediment at the bottom of bottles. Like others, I find it a bit bland and have recently moved over to MJ Liberty Bell as my "house yeast", along with Gervin.

That's interesting, and I wonder if 04 is the wrong yeast for my parsnip stout! I threw the last batch away the other day and made some more. The batch I threw away was my third attempt and my first with 04, but the first two were with a different yeast, can't remember what, just asked in the shop for a yeast suitable for stout. As others have said, for the typical English bitter-style beer I normally brew (and bottle), 04 seems to work very well.

 

[Hop_it]

I've no wish to throw a spanner in the works, but the last time I used S-04 was in a "bits of everything Porter" to use up a varied selection of dark and darkish malts, and various surplus hops (calculated bitterness = ~40 IBUs). The OG was 1.045, and the FG was 1.013, so not brilliant attenuation (as already pointed out by darellm). That said, it was still very nice. It was roasty and without any noticeable sweetness, so the attenuation was enough w.r.t. taste. However, that is the only time I have used S-04 for a really dark beer. . . . . perhaps I was lucky.

 

[Burtsbeets]

I've no wish to throw a spanner in the works, but the last time I used S-04 was in a "bits of everything Porter" to use up a varied selection of dark and darkish malts, and various surplus hops (calculated bitterness = ~40 IBUs). The OG was 1.045, and the FG was 1.013, so not brilliant attenuation (as already pointed out by darellm). That said, it was still very nice. It was roasty and without any noticeable sweetness, so the attenuation was enough w.r.t. taste. However, that is the only time I have used S-04 for a really dark beer. . . . . perhaps I was lucky.

Would be interesting to see the actual grain bill, just in case there is something that can be extracted from it!

 

[Hop_it]

Would be interesting to see the actual grain bill, just in case there is something that can be extracted from it!

No problem, the recipe (for ~23l) is below. I must point out again that I made this just to use up left over grains from previous brews. It turned out better than I had expected because I had some teething problems with my Robobrew, and managed to block the pump during the mash. However, I would never bother to make it again because the recipe is a mess. There is a nice recipe for Caledonian Porter in Graham Wheeler's book which I have made several times, and enjoy very much.

Malts etc
Maris Otter (5 EBC) 3.6kg
Chocolate Malt (1050 EBC) 138g
Crystal Malt (130 EBC) 85g
Amber Malt (60 EBC) 250g
Wheat malt (3.5 EBC) 465g
Cara Red (50 EBC) 52g
Special B (300 EBC) 85g
Muscovado Sugar (200 EBC) 130g

Hops
Bramling Cross (5.5% AA) 60 min
Bramling Cross (5.5% AA) 5 min

Calculated IBU = ~41
Calculated ABV = ~4.2%
Yeast - SafAle S-04

I hope this helps

 

[buddsy]

The brew is a Maris Otter light golden ale hopped with EKG and cascade for aroma. Really looking forward to tasting this one as I am hoping to nail down a solid summer session ale.

I have a similar Golden Ale brew in my FV from last weekend.
Mine was a SMASH with MO and Chinook. I went for the Safale US-05 which I intend to dry hop with the remaining 40g of Chinook.

Fermentation is just about coming to an end.

OG was 1.051 but Ive not yet taken a second reading...well i had popped the hydrometer in the fermentor but due to the Krausen I can now only just see the top of it - what a numptey I know!


buddsy

 

[foxy]

No problem, the recipe (for ~23l) is below. I must point out again that I made this just to use up left over grains from previous brews. It turned out better than I had expected because I had some teething problems with my Robobrew, and managed to block the pump during the mash. However, I would never bother to make it again because the recipe is a mess. There is a nice recipe for Caledonian Porter in Graham Wheeler's book which I have made several times, and enjoy very much.

Malts etc
Maris Otter (5 EBC) 3.6kg
Chocolate Malt (1050 EBC) 138g
Crystal Malt (130 EBC) 85g
Amber Malt (60 EBC) 250g
Wheat malt (3.5 EBC) 465g
Cara Red (50 EBC) 52g
Special B (300 EBC) 85g
Muscovado Sugar (200 EBC) 130g

Hops
Bramling Cross (5.5% AA) 60 min
Bramling Cross (5.5% AA) 5 min

Calculated IBU = ~41
Calculated ABV = ~4.2%
Yeast - SafAle S-04

I hope this helps

Poor old SO4 gets some stick, especially when used in dark beers. The grain bill above has a fair amount of unfermentables, while contributing sugars they are not fermentable sugars. SO4 is a solid performer but like other yeast will only ferment what sugars it can. pH will play a major roll, also a longer low mash temperature followed by a shorter mash at a higher temperature will help to produce better fermentability from the base malt.
All this comes up regularly, check out the number of times stuck ferment pops up, 9 times out of 10 it will be in a stout, and it isn't always SO4 yeast.
https://beerandbrewing.com/exchange-rates-ii-specialty-grains/

 

[Sandimas]

Poor old SO4 gets some stick, especially when used in dark beers.

Good point, it's not a bad yeast, just a bit underwhelming at times. The last time I posted about S04 I was having a bit of a downer on it, but then made a BC Porter with MJ Empire Ale yeast that only produced 54% attenuation and an FG of 1025, now that's a poor yeast (well it was for me, used it a few times).

 

[Burtsbeets]

Good point, it's not a bad yeast, just a bit underwhelming at times. The last time I posted about S04 I was having a bit of a downer on it, but then made a BC Porter with MJ Empire Ale yeast that only produced 54% attenuation and an FG of 1025, now that's a poor yeast (well it was for me, used it a few times).

Wow, 1025, that's a few points off of the OG of a light lager haha. Did you re-pitch some other yeast or leave it as is?

 

[foxy]

Good point, it's not a bad yeast, just a bit underwhelming at times. The last time I posted about S04 I was having a bit of a downer on it, but then made a BC Porter with MJ Empire Ale yeast that only produced 54% attenuation and an FG of 1025, now that's a poor yeast (well it was for me, used it a few times).

We so often read on forums that the yeast didn't perform but it does pay to look at all the factors. Starting with the grain bill, is there too many non fermentables in there pushing the gravity up? Was the mash carried out correctly, did the alpha & beta amylase get a fair crack of the whip during the mash? Was the pH in the ball park to convert the starch to sugar? Then look at the yeast, was the yeast healthy, was there enough yeast pitched? When the yeast producers put an apparent attenuation that is what the brewer should be getting plus or minus a few percentage points.
https://byo.com/article/attenuation-advanced-brewing/

 

[Hop_it]

We so often read on forums that the yeast didn't perform but it does pay to look at all the factors. Starting with the grain bill, is there too many non fermentables in there pushing the gravity up? Was the mash carried out correctly, did the alpha & beta amylase get a fair crack of the whip during the mash? Was the pH in the ball park to convert the starch to sugar? Then look at the yeast, was the yeast healthy, was there enough yeast pitched? When the yeast producers put an apparent attenuation that is what the brewer should be getting plus or minus a few percentage points.
https://byo.com/article/attenuation-advanced-brewing/

That's a good article. I've seen the same information in John Palmer's book ("How To Brew"), but this article is easier to follow.
My previous posts concerning my (limited) experience of using S-04 to brew a dark beer was not intended to condemn it. In fact it performed remarkably well in the circumstances . . . . . I mentioned having had some teething problems with a blocked pump during the mash, but didn't tell the whole story -- I had intended to mash at ~66 degC for an hour. I actually mashed at this temperature for less than 25 min. I then (carelessly) allowed some grain to go down the central recirculation tube, and it blocked the pump. I had to lift out the malt tube, empty the Robobrew completely, and abandon the mash. Once I had succeeded in unblocking the pump I poured all of the wort back in, and continued with the boil. It was not one of my better brewing days
So, it was a great surprise to me that the beer turned out as nice as it did. It was never going to win any prizes, but it was still very drinkable. Based on this, I would certainly try using S-04 again in a moderate ABV porter or stout, even if the apparent attenuation turned out lower than predicted. . . . . But then again, maybe I was lucky that time

 

[foxy]

That's a good article. I've seen the same information in John Palmer's book ("How To Brew"), but this article is easier to follow.
My previous posts concerning my (limited) experience of using S-04 to brew a dark beer was not intended to condemn it. In fact it performed remarkably well in the circumstances . . . . . I mentioned having had some teething problems with a blocked pump during the mash, but didn't tell the whole story -- I had intended to mash at ~66 degC for an hour. I actually mashed at this temperature for less than 25 min. I then (carelessly) allowed some grain to go down the central recirculation tube, and it blocked the pump. I had to lift out the malt tube, empty the Robobrew completely, and abandon the mash. Once I had succeeded in unblocking the pump I poured all of the wort back in, and continued with the boil. It was not one of my better brewing days
So, it was a great surprise to me that the beer turned out as nice as it did. It was never going to win any prizes, but it was still very drinkable. Based on this, I would certainly try using S-04 again in a moderate ABV porter or stout, even if the apparent attenuation turned out lower than predicted. . . . . But then again, maybe I was lucky that time

Not pointing the bone at you, just a general consensus of where people are likely to turn in perceived poor attenuation by the yeast.

 

[Didge]

It seems our taste in yeast is as varied as our taste in beer.

I used S-04 for many years, it ferments well and sticks well to the bottom of bottles. Its a good yeast for traditional British ales.

I changed to MJ44 a year ago as it performs equally well (after a slow start) but it seems to bring out more complex and subtle hoppy notes. It could almost be described as a crisper and cleaner taste, ideal for some modern craft beers. Now my taste buds are used to MJ44, S-04 seems a little bit bland in comparison.

The best advice is to experiment until you find which yeasts work best for your own taste buds, it may take a while but you will have lots of fun experimenting

 

[Hop_it]

Not pointing the bone at you, just a general consensus of where people are likely to turn in perceived poor attenuation by the yeast.

No offence taken. I think that you were absolutely right to point out the many other possible causes of poor attenuation. It's too easy to blame the yeast when things go wrong . . . . . . Yeast is a strange and varied little beast, and we all have our favourites - frequently chosen for no better reason than the fact that they worked well for us on the day. I've been brewing for >40 years, and I still enjoy experimenting and learning something new about making beer, even when things don't always go to plan

 

[Sandimas]

My observation that it doesn't do so well in dark beers comes from many years of using S04 in a variety of dark and light beers using the same brewing method, so a fairly non-scientific observation. But as you point out, it generally results in the attenuation range listed on the packet, just at the lower end compared to lighter beers.

I put a stout on yesterday using my same brewing method but with Gervin yeast so it'll be interesting to see how it turns out. I usually pick my yeasts in order of what needs using up, this was the first time I actually decided not to use S04 because it was a dark beer, so we'll see in about 2 weeks time where it's at.

 

[Hop_it]

Interesting, I've used Gervin GV12 in lowish gravity stouts and porters many times in the past, and it has never failed me. I've found it to be quite neutral in flavour/character, so perhaps not particularly exciting for those who are specifically looking for that. . . . . . . And just for the record, the attenuation (there's that word again) was always good. I looked back through my brewing records, and the FG (whatever the grain bill) has always dropped comfortably below 1.010.
I hope that it works well for you

 

[AdeDunn]

I use Omega Hothead ale for dark beers. It's liquid, not dried, but it's pretty bomb proof (unless it's an old pack, you can pretty much skip starters etc as it's a kveik strain). One tip if you do though, one I need to remember myself, DON'T prime with sugar, just bottle without any additional sugar additions. It gets enough to carbonate from residuals that are still there after it's "finished", and it'll be fine for 2/3 months, then after that you'll find your beer leaves the bottle without you having to pour it... lol So if you want fast drinking beer that you know you are going to get through, yeah prime it, if you want beer to keep (as dark beers keep fairly well usually) don't. lol

Oh, if you're making a tropical stout, up the fermentation temp from normal room temps to something a bit warmer.... The Hothead will go from neutral to a tropical fruit bomb.

Pretty sure I even used Hothead in the chocolate mint porter I made one time... lol I could be wrong, but don't think I am.

 

[moto748]

Further to post #24. I now have my fourth batch of stout in demi-johns under fermentation locks. It's coming to the end, and looks like it will only need a day or two in there. But either way, I think I will try another yeast (something other than S04) next time.