First ever extract brew - do these recipes look any good?

[matth]

Having had a year of turbo cider and ginger beer, and finally done one kit i am about to put mu 15 litre mini boiler into action with a couple of extract brews.

Sorry if these questions seem a little dumb, i think i have cleared up the process in my own mind, but would like the opinions of the more experienced (more than me, which is just about everyone) brewers amongst you.

I have come up with 2 recipes to do starting this wednesday evening, and as the homebrew shop is a little out of the way i have tried to combine ingredients to get the most out of my trip, as you will see in the recipes, which i have adapted form others on here, and various other places. All opinions welcome, because at the moment it all seems like numbers to me and i am struggling to put these ingredients in to flavours in my head. the recipes are as follows

Adapted Belgian Thing

For 11 Litres

500g amber malt (steeped for 30 mins)
1 kg. Dry Light Extract
250 g. Wheat Spraymalt
250 g. Candi Sugar Clear
35 g. Saaz boiled 45 min. (15mins into boil)
14 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 15 min. (45 mins into boil)
14 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
Yeast : Safbrew S-33

Dry hop 15g Saaz (10 days)

(total hops 78 grams)



Adapted Pale Ale Thing
11/12 litres

500g Crushed Crystal Malt or Golden Promise (steeped 30 mins)
1 kg. Dry Light Extract
250 g. Wheat Spraymalt

20g Cascade (leaf) boiled 45 min. (15mins into boil)
7 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
7 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
10g Saaz (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
7 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
7 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
Yeast: Safale US-05 or S04?
Dry hop 20g Amarillo (10 days)

(Total Hops 78 grams)



Feel free to laugh at me if these are going to end up like water or gravy, i obviously do not intend this.

Many thanks, Matt

 

[shocker]

I have been out of the game for some years and the products have changed - when you say dry extract as opposed to spraymalt ,well what is it ? Now I sound REALLY dumb ,which makes you look much better by contrast ! See! Things are looking up already !

On the pale ale ,I would be inclined to go with pale malt rather than the crystal ,or just use half the amount of the crystal ,or the same amount of that and wheat .And why not up the malts and cut the sugar ? If you are going as far as to do the grain extraction ,you may as well ,or use less in proportion if it gives you the peace of mind....I know it does for me ! Then I know that if I totally cock the grain theres something there to ferment ! THe hops ,again I am behind the times ,but I would think that the Saaz would be a little lost going in that early....but the hops these days re way,way superior to what we used to get !

 

[RobWalker]

That doesn't sound like much malt to me, most of my brews have at least 2kg in...use someone else's recipe for your first brew mate, then start to get creative.

 

[thejesmonddingo]

The total malt gives an OG of 1050 approx,but it seems like a lot of crystal type malts,they don't give a lot of alcohol,but can make the beer sweet and cloying,I'd normally only use crystal to about 10-15% of the total amount of malt.
Good luck,Ian

 

[matth]

Great, thank you for your replies

when you say dry extract as opposed to spraymalt ,well what is it ?

Sorry, i may of mixed up terminology, basically i mean spraymalt, which i thought all dried malt extract was (hopefully someone will correct me if i am wrong). I have been taking bits from american websites as google always seems to take me to them, so my phrases and measurements may be a bit inconsistent -but i have tried to calculate for these.

That doesn't sound like much malt to me, most of my brews have at least 2kg in

would you put about 2 kg in 10 litres?

use someone else's recipe for your first brew mate, then start to get creative.

These are taken from someone elses recipe, but i have adjusted for a smaller brew length, and i havent found the style of beer i want (firstly a pale using amarillo and cascade) using DME, they all seem to be AG and i am not sure how to calculate the alternative in extract.

I have Amarillo and cascade hops already - for dry hopping a kit (I had a Kernel Pale Ale which had cascade and amarillo - it was one of the best beers i have had recently)
I just wanted to buy some other ingredients, but combine them with enough to do another brew a week or so later and avoid 2 trips to the LHB shop.

I am happy just to go with the pale ale for the time being though - i thought that the belgian one might be nice to age.

The total malt gives an OG of 1050 approx

Is this OK, what is it likely to drop to? i would like around 4.5 - 5% abv.

I'd normally only use crystal to about 10-15% of the total amount of malt.

so is that 10 - 15% grain weight of the DME?

So if i up the Malt and taking into acount other comments, i have also upped the hops a bit

Adapted Pale Ale Thing
11/12 litres

250g Golden Promise (steeped 30 mins) - is this ok for steeping - taking into account the comment on using pale malt? would i be able to steep crushed Maris otter as an alternative?
1.5 kg. Dry Light Extract
250 g. Wheat Spraymalt

15g Cascade (leaf) boiled 45 min. (15mins into boil)
15g Amarillo (leaf) boiled 45 min. (15mins into boil)
7 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
7 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
10 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
10 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
Yeast: Safale US-05 or S04?
Dry hop 10g Amarillo (10 days)
Dry hop 10g Cascade (10 days)
(Total Hops 84 grams)

Many thanks, i really can't wait to get this going if i can just finalise this recipe.

 

[matth]

Can i add too much malt? what will happen or will it just be stronger with more body and maltiness?

Cheers

 

[matth]

Any opinions on whether this sounds ok or not??

Adapted Pale Ale Thing
11/12 litres

250g Golden Promise (steeped 30 mins) - is this ok for steeping - taking into account the comment on using pale malt? would i be able to steep crushed Maris otter as an alternative?
1.5 kg. Dry Light Extract
250 g. Wheat Spraymalt

15g Cascade (leaf) boiled 45 min. (15mins into boil)
15g Amarillo (leaf) boiled 45 min. (15mins into boil)
7 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
7 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 30 min. (30 mins into boil)
10 g. Amarillo (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
10 g. Cascade (leaf) boiled 5 min. (55 mins into boil)
Yeast: Safale US-05 or S04?
Dry hop 10g Amarillo (10 days)
Dry hop 10g Cascade (10 days)

(Total Hops 84 grams)

Thanks

 

[thejesmonddingo]

The golden Promise is a pale malt,and needs mashing,I think you've got hold of a partial mash recipe.The golden Promise can be replaced by malt extract,I'd use 3/4 of the weight of Golden Promise.If you want to tell me how strong a beer you want in ABV,and how dark or pale,it's worth looking here( http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_Guidelines.pdf )to get an idea of the differences between American and British pale ales.I'll use the recipe software on here,and try to make something that looks ok,to give you an idea of what it should look like.The wheat malt will aid head retention,but not add greatly to the flavour.I'll probably do it as 13 litre brew,coz that's 3 gallons,and I drink pints :lol:
Ian

 

[matth]

Great, Cheers thejesmonddingo.
Sorry for the late reply i h usually do this at work :whistle: so had to reset my password to access this at home. The golden promise was instead of crystal malt, as i waned something to make it a bit more complex - although if using all DME is ok then i'll just do that.
In my original recipe i had crystal but someone said it was a bit cloying?? I was thinking of steeping grain - but again all this is new to me so i have probably got the wrong end of the stick.

My boiler is only 15 litres so i worry about boiling 13 litres, but i'm happy to give it a try.

The ultimate aim is for a pale ale - american, british, indian - i don't care so long as its pale, hoppy and with cascade and ammarillo. i was aiming for about 5%abv but can be a bit either way

The reason for the hops was a kernel APA i had that had them in - which was amazing, i am not trying to copy it, just somewhere ball park will do.

I dink pints (or 568mls), but unfortunately i can't get my head around gallons, and in larger quantities i can visualise litres.

Thanks again unfortunately i don't seem to have the depth of knowledge to work out the calculators - This is my first brew apart from 1 tom caxton kit and turbo ciders and elderflower champagne - any and all help opinions, comments welcome.

 

[PhatFil]

my simple guess at a pale ale recipe worked pretty well tho not complex it did raise eyebrows and elicit requests for 'more please' 19litres were sank in less than a fortnight!!

2kg pale malt 2 kg extra pale malt,
4 oz of flaked rice
6 oz crystal malt .. my scales were in oz for these measurements?? and thats what i wrote down...
40gm challanger hops for full boil
15 gm fuggles for last 15 mins

i got about 22 ltrs out of this and a final brew of 5% 6 bottles and a corny keg full, the keg was sampled after 2 weeks and emptied within 4. I am waiting for a batch made to a very similar recipe (differnt hops..) it was kegged just over 2 weeks ago.... Im trying to leave it for 4 weeks before i sample....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hunnimonstr/6266380719/

 

[matth]

That looks good :clap: , how much of a guess was it?
I am just wondering how much of a punt to have on this. It is an informed muddle of a few things that i have come up with but as i do not really know what i am doing uts a bit of a stab in the dark.
What does flaked rice do?

 

[PhatFil]

That looks good :clap: , how much of a guess was it?
I am just wondering how much of a punt to have on this. It is an informed muddle of a few things that i have come up with but as i do not really know what i am doing uts a bit of a stab in the dark.
What does flaked rice do?

I wish i did know what i was doing, im a newbie all grain brewer, still learning lots... tho i did have the cj berry brew your own beer book since the 70's and was brewing kits until boots stopped selling them...

since starting all grain brewing i am on a bit of a pale ale quest, as its what i like to drink

in about 18 months i will have a few pale ales bottled and matured. Then I shall hold a tasting... and hopefully a definitive good pale ale recipe will emerge.. but if i do say so myself i did start with a pretty good effort :) but then im over the moon to get anything drinkable out of the process :)

the rice is used in lots of US pale beers, it adds body without colour, and is probably a lot cheaper than malt..

 

[Aleman]

What does flaked rice do?

The rice is used in lots of US pale beers, it adds body without colour, and is probably a lot cheaper than malt..

Actually it does the opposite, Rice is a Nitrogen and flavour dilutant, and is used extensively in the production of American Standard Beers (Budweiser for example uses a grist of about 25-30% rice) so that they can get that pale gold colour with little flavour. American Craft Breweries tend not to use such adjuntcts.

You can use it to replace plain sugar in a recipe, as it thins the body less than sugar would do (it is less fermentation), but adds no flavour.

In Anheuser Busch' case the rice they use is grown specifically under contract to AB to their Specs, and actually costs AB more than the malt they use . . .Generally though It does reduce the cost of the brew . . . what would other breweries use, it depends on the cost of sugar and rice on the markets really.

 

[matth]

Great thanks for this, i think i'll leave the rice out as it seems a little complicated for me just yet . will only steep one grain.

Does anyone have a suggestion of a good grain to steep - such as crystal etc, for a extract brew. and also quantity i should use for a 11/12 litre brew length.

Thanks

 

[PhatFil]

What does flaked rice do?

The rice is used in lots of US pale beers, it adds body without colour, and is probably a lot cheaper than malt..

Actually it does the opposite, Rice is a Nitrogen and flavour dilutant, and is used extensively in the production of American Standard Beers (Budweiser for example uses a grist of about 25-30% rice) so that they can get that pale gold colour with little flavour. American Craft Breweries tend not to use such adjuntcts.

You can use it to replace plain sugar in a recipe, as it thins the body less than sugar would do (it is less fermentation), but adds no flavour.

In Anheuser Busch' case the rice they use is grown specifically under contract to AB to their Specs, and actually costs AB more than the malt they use . . .Generally though It does reduce the cost of the brew . . . what would other breweries use, it depends on the cost of sugar and rice on the markets really.

I stand corrected, sorry to misinform, I still liked the results tho..

 

[thejesmonddingo]

Hi Matt,have a look at this recipe recipeview.php?recipe_id=1295 I've brewed a very similar brew and it's a good hoppy brew,which fits the spec for an American Pale Ale.You don't need to boil the full amount of water for an extract brew,I usually use 5-7 litres.If you want to use a steeping grain,use 200g of crystal malt,it will add body and some malt flavour,but will darken the beer.If you need any more help let me know.
Ian

 

[matth]

Cheers thejesmonddingo, this is brilliant, thank you very much. i'll give this a go, maybe with the lightest crystal they have at the lhbs.

The only thing i was thinking about now is a mediumish belgian recipe, i have spotted a few so i'll look in to them.

Thanks again. I can't wait to get home and start this.

 

[matth]

One question, i quite like the idea of using a bit of wheat spraymalt for head retention and a bit of interest, do i add this to the spraymalt you have indicated in the recipe? for instance 1900g light spraymalt & 200g wheat spraymalt?

Thanks again.

 

[thejesmonddingo]

Yes if you want,the ABV will be about the same,and it will keep a head longer.
Ian

 

[matth]

Great, just writing my shopping list, then off to lhbs after work!

Thanks for all the help