First brew with Brewzilla G4

[peterpiper]

I'm a bit disappointed by the whirlpool arm. It doesn't actually seem to get much of a whirlpool going at all. I've seen there are modifications you can do to improve it though.

Whirlpool eems feeble to me aa well. And, with the central drain, unless you have the HED you're probably wasting your time.
I'm now trying stirring with a wine degasser drill paddle, to both give a good vortex and to oxygenate the wort. But to achieve the latter, paddle needs to be near surface to pull in air (opposite to wine de-gassing), but that can then splash a lot. The boil tube extension can help catch splashes.

........ I'm going to buy a BT thermometer because there's such a difference between the bottom plate temperature and the grain bed, and I need to fiddle with the PID calibration. I've seen people mention they're able to achieve <0.5 difference in their mash when they get it right.

Highly recommend the BT thermometer, to me this serms the biggest improvement introduced.
It's amazing what the difference in temperatures can be between the inbuilt sensor, and the grainbed, and how long the latter takes to catch up.

I now use profiles that give an alarm once grainbed temperature reaches 3°C below the step temp, (when I start a manual step timer). This alarm typically comes 15 to 20min after the step starts, depending on recirculation rate. So adds to the the brew time, at every step.

I'm now starting to wonder if the recommended temperature figures are actually correct, when you're measuring grainbed temp. Those figures, came from a time when plotting grainbed temperature, vs recirculated wort temperature, would have been very difficult.
Prior to BT probe, I got fine brews, with much quicker mash times. Since using BT, I've had a few brews that haven't fermented down to expected FG, and maybe taste of dextrins. So maybe my 'accurate' temperatures are now actually too high?

The PID has to be right for the particular mash volume, and recirculation flow rate.
Even if inbuilt sensor, stayed within 0.1°C of target when using PID, there's no saying what the actual grain temperature is.

So get BT; turn off PID; set diff to 5°C; and adjust heater power depending on recirculation rate (maybe 35% if rate slow).
Higher diff will achieve target bed temp quicker, but there's more risk of wort enzymes being de-natured (higher risk at slow flow rates, where wort could stay hotter for longer).

Calibrate inbuilt sensor at cold water and boil temps (as BT is main control of the mash temp).

Power down the BT probe before removing it (for drain and boil when it would be in the way) so control reverts to the inbuilt sensor.
Insert probe after dough-in, then power it on a minute later, once it's warmed (to have consistant temperature graphs).

 

[foxy]

My mash is as fluid as they come but without stirring the temperature is varied wherever the probe gets inserted. The return flow is like the Gulf Stream, heating the mash where it is flowing, and where it isn't it is cooling.
Throttle down the flow just makes matters worse. My conversion efficiency on my last brew was 92%

 

[Twostage]

OK, so I've used it a few times now so I've learned a few things. Most recently that I needed to change the boil profile so its now a two step - first step finishes when it gets to 100c and the second step has a target of 102 to keep it boiling. Saves having two profiles.

Anyway, overall I don't miss BIAB and glad I got it.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Reading through these posts on the gen 4, it seems to me the malt pipe is the major design flaw as in being narrow and tall. if you are mechanically minded you will find a way round it if your not it's not fit for purpose

 

[Twostage]

I did a test earlier and they've fixed (i.e. removed) the annoying pop-up that tells you how to navigate to the next stage which stops you seeings what is happening with the current stage. So multi-stage profiles are now workable.

I've created a Helles profile as a test. I've decided that I'm going to create 'style' profiles i.e. Helles, Pale Ale, Bitter etc.

 

[dcbrookes]

Reading through these posts on the gen 4, it seems to me the malt pipe is the major design flaw as in being narrow and tall. if you are mechanically minded you will find a way round it if your not it's not fit for purpose

The G4 malt pipe has the same proportions as the G3 malt pipe which you seem to use quite happily. As you do not have a G4 and have probably not used one your pontifications are of little value.

 

[Rodcx500z]

The G4 malt pipe has the same proportions as the G3 malt pipe which you seem to use quite happily. As you do not have a G4 and have probably not used one your pontifications are of little value.

There are not many posts on here about the g3 malt pipe which i am very happy about thank you, so i suggest you pontificate some were else

 

[tondy79]

There are not many posts on here about the g3 malt pipe which i am very happy about thank you, so i suggest you pontificate some were else

@dcbrookes raises a good point though, the diameter of both the G3 and G4 malt pipes are the same, so this should only be a detrimental factor if using the additional ~80cm of height the G4 allows (i.e. if brewing with larger grain bills than the G3 can handle). Though I'm not an engineer so maybe there is some other factor I'm missing.

In any case, I'm getting good flow rates and good efficiency from my gen 4, like I've had good flow rate and good efficiency from a Klarstein machine

Happy brewing!

 

[tondy79]

I did a test earlier and they've fixed (i.e. removed) the annoying pop-up that tells you how to navigate to the next stage which stops you seeings what is happening with the current stage. So multi-stage profiles are now workable.

I've created a Helles profile as a test. I've decided that I'm going to create 'style' profiles i.e. Helles, Pale Ale, Bitter etc.

Glad to see that they are improving the interface, I've also got a Helles coming up on my brew schedule so will be giving the profiles another run

 

[Rodcx500z]

@dcbrookes raises a good point though, the diameter of both the G3 and G4 malt pipes are the same, so this should only be a detrimental factor if using the additional ~80cm of height the G4 allows (i.e. if brewing with larger grain bills than the G3 can handle). Though I'm not an engineer so maybe there is some other factor I'm missing.

In any case, I'm getting good flow rates and good efficiency from my gen 4, like I've had good flow rate and good efficiency from a Klarstein machine

Happy brewing!

The difference is in height and the perforations at the bottom, so would a large grain bill not compact more thus causing issues with flow rate while recirculating

 

[tondy79]

The difference is in height and the perforations at the bottom, so would a large grain bill not compact more thus causing issues with flow rate while recirculating

Yes, I think that is what I was suggesting too, only where a larger grain bill is being used. The same grain bill in a G3 and G4 should produce very similar results I would have thought.

 

[Twostage]

Glad to see that they are improving the interface, I've also got a Helles coming up on my brew schedule so will be giving the profiles another run

Happy to make my profile public, if only for reference. It uses the schedule from the Helles book I’ve just read.

 

[tondy79]

Happy to make my profile public, if only for reference. It uses the schedule from the Helles book I’ve just read.

Ah yes, if you don't mind that would be interesting. If you do that then please let me know the title so I can search it out. Cheers!

 

[Twostage]

Ah yes, if you don't mind that would be interesting. If you do that then please let me know the title so I can search it out. Cheers!

OK. I've made it public. Search for "HBF Helles".

 

[tondy79]

OK. I've made it public. Search for "HBF Helles".

Thanks, I had a chance to knock one up to, which (I think!) you can find as "Stepped Mash (Munich Helles)".

I'm now going to crib from yours though

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

I’ve just done my first brew on a Gen 4 35l - 23l Wards Bitter kit from WHS. My previous AIO was a 45l Hopcat.
I went in at the deep end, buying a bundle including the HED and jacket and using PID heating control with the Bluetooth Rapt thermometer.

First impressions: heating to strike temperature was quick. Doughing in steadily I got no dry spots. Gave it a good stir after 10 mins recirc when the bed had compacted and recirc flow rate slowed.

Mash temperature control dialled in with PID 1 0.3 and PID 2 0.01, held to within 0.2C. Recirc pump at 100% and slowed down a little via the tap. Ramped up to mash out using the Rapt app.

Lift & sparge easy-peasy. First time cold water sparging (using Tesco Ashbeck) and set boil temp to 101C. Nice, lightly compacted grain bed with great flow rate.

Boil achieved quickly with no dramas. Using leaf hops so thrown in loose. Boil complete, whirlpool while chilling then pumped out via the recirc arm at 50% flow. Lovely clear wort and nice hop bed on the false bottom.

Cleaning easy - the cooling water run into an old FV which the malt pipe & bits fit into. Recirc some oxi and a fresh water rinse.

So first impressions are overwhelmingly positive, and consider this money well spent. I was happy with the Hopcat ( only sold due to moving and having much less storage) but this is a clear step up.

 

[Twostage]

Did my first brew with a full profile that ran the whole process and it worked very well. Did the strike, mash, mashout, raise to boil, boil with alerts for three hop additions, cool to whirlpool, whirlpool and finish. Very pleased with it. I left the heat at 100% for the mash and it worked perfectly. As a test I left the PID on for the ramp to boil but I could hear it controlling it when it got to around 97 so I turned the PID off. This is why turning PID on and off should be part of the profile steps. Going to see where they are with that request.

As a test I'd thought I'd try the patented, @MashBag fan method to help the cool down to 85 for the whirlpool and it was surprisingly effective. I wasn't expecting it to make a difference as it has a jacket but it did. I'm assuming the heat conducts to the jacket and the fan blows the heat away. When it reached 85 I turned the fan off and it bounced back up to 87. Decided to keep the fan on and it looks like (according to Excel) it is going to be somewhere near pitching temp in around three hours. Going to monitor it more for a bit and then sort out the smack pack.

 

[tondy79]

Did my first brew with a full profile that ran the whole process and it worked very well. Did the strike, mash, mashout, raise to boil, boil with alerts for three hop additions, cool to whirlpool, whirlpool and finish. Very pleased with it. I left the heat at 100% for the mash and it worked perfectly. As a test I left the PID on for the ramp to boil but I could hear it controlling it when it got to around 97 so I turned the PID off. This is why turning PID on and off should be part of the profile steps. Going to see where they are with that request.

Great stuff @Twostage, and also thanks for testing out the "heat at 100% for the mash" aspect, that is handy to know! On a related note, do you set hysteresis to 0 when using the PID during mash, or something else?

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

Just adding my two penn’orth as I did my first Gen 4 brew on Monday. The mash control with PID and 100% heat was near perfect for a first effort. For the boil I just set it to 101C which resulted in very little cycling then dialled back to 100.1 which kept a rolling boil.

 

[Twostage]

Great stuff @Twostage, and also thanks for testing out the "heat at 100% for the mash" aspect, that is handy to know! On a related note, do you set hysteresis to 0 when using the PID during mash, or something else?

I've got it set to .3 which is close enough for me. It went +/- .3 during the mash 66.7 - 67.3.