First AG, Tips for improving?

[braziliain]

So today I had a crack at Clibit's Simple AG.

It went ok, but there was some stuff I wasn't expecting. If anyone can offer any tips for improving, that would be much appreciated!

Recipe was:

1.5kg Maris Otter
7.5g East Kent Goldings @ 1hr
15g East Kent Goldings @ 5min
Wilko Gervin Ale Yeast

Got strike water (4.5L) to 75C and mashed in using a mashing bag. After mashing in temp was 68.5C and remained that way for 1hr wrapped up in a towel and a coat.

Then did a dunk sparge in 6L of water @ 80C for 10min. Combined mash & sparge wort and brought to boil.

I was surprised how much grist was still in the wort at this point. I could see it all bubbling around. I used this mashing bag and it has quite a coarse mesh on the bottom. Much finer mesh on the sides.

Boil with hops went ok. I have never smelled hops on their own before and the smell from the EKG was amazing!

I cooled the pot in a trug and chanfed water 3 times to get it to 22C in around 40min.

When I came to put the wort in the fermenters, it was like pouring soup. I used a hop sock over the neck of the fermenter to strain it and it kept getting blocked. I had to change the hop sock several times which was a real PITA! There is still plenty of fines in the bottom of the FV now.

The OG came out at 1.052 which is better than I expected and I ended up with 7.5L in the FVs exactly on target. In the interest of improving, how do I calculate efficiency?

Also, after removing my digital probe thermometer from the mash, it went up to 88C and stayed there! I think submerging the probe killed it. It worries me a little that it may not have been reading correctly during the mash.

Does anybody have any thoughts on:

i) Ending up with less fine grist in the wort?
ii) Calculating efficiency
iii) Probe thermometers that can survive a mash!

Here's a few pics from my day. All in all I found it quite relaxing. While it was mashing I cleaned the kitchen, bathroom and had a cuppa with a mate, then while it was boiling I cleared the veggie patch and watched the grand prix!

 

[dan125]

Well done on your first AG brew:thumb:

I think you need a finer mesh bag to keep the bits of grain out. I use a home made bag made from a double layer of fine voile & it works well.

I'd recommend downloading some brewing software to work out efficiency.

Don't worry about the probe in the mash - you know now it doesn't drop much, so just get it to temp, wrap it and leave it alone for an hour (with maybe an occasional stir).

:

 

[BeerisGOD]

Well done mate. What pot did you use for the dunk sparge?
I think id have to do two muslins of grains and use my second biggest pot (7l).

 

[braziliain]

Well done mate. What pot did you use for the dunk sparge?
I think id have to do two muslins of grains and use my second biggest pot (7l).

It's a 15L pot that I got off Amazon. You could maybe go the maxi BIAB route. Never tried it but read a little about it. Basically make a more concentrated wort, then dilute it up to required volume.

 

[Bigjas]

You can check your efficiency here http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/ it's easy to use, just input all the info and it gives you your efficiency.

I had one of those digital thermometers, it lasted one and a half brew days before packing up (everything was 77*c all the time). I now use an analogue one and it sits in my mash for the whole duration with no problem.

 

[braziliain]

You can check your efficiency here http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/ it's easy to use, just input all the info and it gives you your efficiency.

I had one of those digital thermometers, it lasted one and a half brew days before packing up (everything was 77*c all the time). I now use an analogue one and it sits in my mash for the whole duration with no problem.

That's great thanks! Using that calculator it suggests I was around 76% which seems ok.

The thermometer is very poorly built. When it arrived I thought it wouldn't last long unfortunately. The battery pops out all the time.

I'm going to ask Santa for a new thermometer and a set of pocket scales. It was difficult to measure small amounts of hops on my kitchen scales.

 

[Callumbo]

Congrats on the first all grain. I did the same thing using clibit's recipes with a bit of crystal in there as well.

I would recommend a Sioux curtain and a quick go on a sowing machine and you've got a bag. It's a fine material and didn't let any grains or bits out. I wouldn't worry about the bits that fell out. The only concern about this is that bits will land on the bottom of the boiler and burn giving some off flavours but I cant imagine the bits will be big enough to burn in the boiler if they are also small enough to get through the grain bag.

 

[Gerryjo]

So today I had a crack at Clibit's Simple AG.

It went ok, but there was some stuff I wasn't expecting. If anyone can offer any tips for improving, that would be much appreciated!

Recipe was:

1.5kg Maris Otter
7.5g East Kent Goldings @ 1hr
15g East Kent Goldings @ 5min
Wilko Gervin Ale Yeast

Got strike water (4.5L) to 75C and mashed in using a mashing bag. After mashing in temp was 68.5C and remained that way for 1hr wrapped up in a towel and a coat.

Then did a dunk sparge in 6L of water @ 80C for 10min. Combined mash & sparge wort and brought to boil.

I was surprised how much grist was still in the wort at this point. I could see it all bubbling around. I used this mashing bag and it has quite a coarse mesh on the bottom. Much finer mesh on the sides.

Boil with hops went ok. I have never smelled hops on their own before and the smell from the EKG was amazing!

I cooled the pot in a trug and chanfed water 3 times to get it to 22C in around 40min.

When I came to put the wort in the fermenters, it was like pouring soup. I used a hop sock over the neck of the fermenter to strain it and it kept getting blocked. I had to change the hop sock several times which was a real PITA! There is still plenty of fines in the bottom of the FV now.

The OG came out at 1.052 which is better than I expected and I ended up with 7.5L in the FVs exactly on target. In the interest of improving, how do I calculate efficiency?

Also, after removing my digital probe thermometer from the mash, it went up to 88C and stayed there! I think submerging the probe killed it. It worries me a little that it may not have been reading correctly during the mash.

Does anybody have any thoughts on:

i) Ending up with less fine grist in the wort?
ii) Calculating efficiency
iii) Probe thermometers that can survive a mash!

Here's a few pics from my day. All in all I found it quite relaxing. While it was mashing I cleaned the kitchen, bathroom and had a cuppa with a mate, then while it was boiling I cleared the veggie patch and watched the grand prix!

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Congratulations on your first AG.I use the 15 pot alongside an 11.5 usually with 10 and 6 but my grain bill would be higher at around 3.5kg.Once done a 5.5kg but that's a whole handling using small pots and dunk sparging.You could also add malt extract or other adjuncts to increase your ABC and take your batches to 20/23 litres depending on how strong you like your liquor🍺
As for your mash bag you can make your own as has been suggested I used nylon plant warmers from the £ shop but not very strong.Bought muslin cloths from ASDA baby section 3 in a pack and sewn 2 together and is fantastic.Dunelm Mill sell muslin by the Meyer at £3.75 so make your own to suit your pot,hop bags etc.
Your options are endless so open your mind and brew your heart out.👍👌


Sent from my ALE-L21

 

[cheshirehomebrew]

Main tip is practice, the more you do the better you get and will know what replacements to get for whatever equipment you use, my bag is quite a fine mesh one but still gets gritty grist bits in it, the do drop away though

congrats on your first AG welcome to the dark side !

 

[wfr42]

For my stove top brews I went without a bag and poured wort out against the lid and through a sieve. Obviously bigger than 5-10litres this becomes less feasible.

I have found the ikea digital thermometer quite handy for my last 3 brews with a temperature alarm (it also can be switched to a timer). Be aware that others have found them cheap and unreliable.

Looks like a great first ag brew. Maybe ask Santa for a BIAB starter kit from geterbrewed/the hbc...

 

[braziliain]

Thanks for all the tips! :smile:

Plenty to think about. I think I might make a muslin/voile bag that will sit inside the bag I have. That way I can still use the strength of the existing bag and the drawstring etc. I've got to admit this will be putting my sewing skills to the test!!

I'm going to grab a simple spirit thermometer for now I think and keep my eye out for a good quality watertight replacement for my digital one.

My two FV's have stopped bubbling now after only 2-3 days and the krausen has started to dissipate. It seems to have fermented out extremely quickly...

I'm planning on dry hopping with the EKG at 9 days in. Was thinking 7g / FV (each has 3.5L in).

I think I have a problem. I've got this pale ale on the go, a Cerveza kit conditioning, a ginger beer I'm drinking, a turbo cider priming and another turbo cider fermenting. My wife thinks I've lost the plot! :lol:

 

[Slid]

I would do the mash in the pot, in the oven @ 50C with no bag.

Then tip the the contents into the FV, lined with the bag,

Sort the pot out and add sparging water and then add the grains in the bag back into the pot for your sparge.

After sparge, the whole lot goes into the boiling pot.

Makes just so much more sense than frigging the bag around in the mash, to me!

 

[braziliain]

You raise an interesting point there...

I thought about setting the oven to 50 and popping the mash pot in there rather than using a coat and towel to wrap it. Hadn't read about to many folks doing that though. Maybe I'll give that a try.

Is there any way I can work out what my target FG should be? I only say this as my Cerveza kit appeared to have finished but was actually stuck just below 1.020.

 

[Slid]

You raise an interesting point there...

I thought about setting the oven to 50 and popping the mash pot in there rather than using a coat and towel to wrap it. Hadn't read about to many folks doing that though. Maybe I'll give that a try.

Is there any way I can work out what my target FG should be? I only say this as my Cerveza kit appeared to have finished but was actually stuck just below 1.020.

A stuck kit brew at this strangely cold time of year just needs some warmth, up to 20C, a Little Mix (sadly a stir with a long plastic spoon and not some birds with scarcely enough kit on to cover their modesty) and a bit longer in the FV.

That usually does it. Just bear in mind that bottling a beer and shoving it somewhere cold does not stop the frustrated yeast from fermenting. It just takes longer still and comes back to bite you with frothy, acidic beer.

 

[Simonh82]

If you use software like brewers friend you can get a good idea of what your final gravity might be, but it is often a little off. One of the things that significantly affects final gravity is the mash temperature. At 68.5°C you are up at the top end of this and will have created quite a lot of unfermentable dextrins. You may find that this one finishes fairly high too.

It somewhat depends on what yeast you used. The Wilko Ale yeast is a good performer so you might end up at 1.015 but I would be surprised if it went much lower than that. My last beer was mashed at 68°C and went from 1.060 to 1.021 and wouldn't budge.

 

[braziliain]

If you use software like brewers friend you can get a good idea of what your final gravity might be, but it is often a little off. One of the things that significantly affects final gravity is the mash temperature. At 68.5°C you are up at the top end of this and will have created quite a lot of unfermentable dextrins. You may find that this one finishes fairly high too.

It somewhat depends on what yeast you used. The Wilko Ale yeast is a good performer so you might end up at 1.015 but I would be surprised if it went much lower than that. My last beer was mashed at 68°C and went from 1.060 to 1.021 and wouldn't budge.

Great info thanks!

That could go some way to explaining why it appears to have stopped fermenting already. Perhaps a low alcohol clone!

The instructions on the simple AG thread suggested mashing between 65-70C. After I added the grains it was naturally at 68.5 so I just left it seeing as it was in the suggested range.

Is it better to target the lower end then? 65C?

I finish work for Christmas on the 16th and I'm going to brew again, learning from this one hopefully.

 

[Cwrw666]

You raise an interesting point there...

I thought about setting the oven to 50 and popping the mash pot in there rather than using a coat and towel to wrap it. Hadn't read about to many folks doing that though. Maybe I'll give that a try.

Is there any way I can work out what my target FG should be? I only say this as my Cerveza kit appeared to have finished but was actually stuck just below 1.020.

I've never had a stuck fermentation with an all-grain brew. Just with kits, and then only with 2-can kits, not 1 can kits. I think those 2 can kits might be a bit lacking in nutrients for the yeast, whereas AG is kind of like soup and full of goodness.

 

[BeerisGOD]

I like the idea of the 5litre water bottles as the FVs. Must be nice seeing it ferment.
Did you transfer the beer through a syphon? Brazilian

 

[braziliain]

I like the idea of the 5litre water bottles as the FVs. Must be nice seeing it ferment.
Did you transfer the beer through a syphon? Brazilian

Actually, I poured it from the pot into a 2L measuring jug, then used a funnel to get it into the water bottles. I did that so I could accurately measure how much I had left after the boil. Was aiming for 7.5L and had around 7.1. Will add another 400ml to the sparge next time.

I have a t-shirt over the FVs now so that they aren't exposed to the light, but must admit I'm a bit of a shirt lifter!

 

[BeerisGOD]

I reckon my heat belt would get at least half way across two. Maybe go in between them in an s shape if this makes sense.
What did you use to keep the temp up? Or was room temp ok anyway?