First AG recipe help

[Freelancer]

I've decided I wanna go all out on my first AG and do a Black Saison. I had Village Brewery - Undertaker *http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28517/157100/* last summer and fell in love with the flavour. I've been looking at some of the BIPA recipes on the forums already to get an idea.

So I've got alot of final decisions still to make on what grains/hops/yeast to use. But my biggest issue at the moment is i can't find a FAQ/newbie thread that says how much of a base grain i should use. I see alot of variation in recipes from 2.4-3.3kg of base malt. I haven't played with one of the calculators yet so i''m unsure if i'd input what i want for my ABV, IBU, and EBC. And it would calculate my grain weight for me.

Obviously if i over looked the thread where i can find this it would be appreciated if someone could link it.

 

[HebridesRob]

I've never brewed, or even drank, a Saison but I didn't want your question to drift away without an answer.

I think there isn't really any such thing as a "black" Saison so I guess you're going to make a regular saison, only with some roasted malts to give it colour and some roasted flavour.

The "style guide" for a saison is here...
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php#1c

Ingredients: Pilsner malt dominates the grist though a portion of Vienna and/or Munich malt contributes color and complexity. Sometimes contains other grains such as wheat and spelt. Adjuncts such as sugar and honey can also serve to add complexity and thin the body. Hop bitterness and flavor may be more noticeable than in many other Belgian styles. A saison is sometimes dry-hopped. Noble hops, Styrian or East Kent Goldings are commonly used. A wide variety of herbs and spices are often used to add complexity and uniqueness in the stronger versions, but should always meld well with the yeast and hop character. Varying degrees of acidity and/or sourness can be created by the use of gypsum, acidulated malt, a sour mash or Lactobacillus. Hard water, common to most of Wallonia, can accentuate the bitterness and dry finish.

The beer advocate site talks about Chocolate brown colour (I'm guessing at around 45-50 EBC). 6.5abv, Belgian yeast, banana, clove, spice, toasted malts, earthy and spicy hops, cracked black pepper.

For any beer the base malt is going to be 70-100%. I don't want to design the recipe for you (I can come up with one if you like but it might not be right) but you should probably use Belgian pilsner malt for the vast majority of the grist with enough black malt/roasted barley and chocolate malt (possibly the de-husked kind) to give the colour you want. Then consider caramel malt/carapils, aromatic malt, cloves, european hops, Belgian yeast.

edit:
Not sure I fully answered your question. Here's how I would do this...
1. Decide how much I wanted to make (20 litres?) input all the data for mash/sparge/equipment loss/boil loss /to get the amount of liquid right.
2. I know how strong (6.5%) so add the yeast and input brewhouse efficiency (70% is a good guess for first try) so the program can calculate final gravity and abv. Input base malt quantities until the program calculates the abv as I want it (4.5 Kilos as a guess)
3. Add the other malts and adjust the quantities of the malts until colour and abv are right.
4. Add hops until I have the IBU I'm looking for.

 

[Freelancer]

Thanks for the help :) So my understanding is that I WILL hafta play around a bit with a calculator to figure out the basics of what i wanna build :) The "70-100%" sounds like the type of number i was hoping someone would point me toward As for beer styles/recipes I've always been a fan of doing the less popular or even new things in all aspects of my life. Hopfully i can make some new great flavours

 

[clibit]

I guess you decide if you want a regular pilsner grain bill plus a dark grain to mainly provide colouring, or dark grains that also provide significant roast flavour.

If you go for a lot of roast, and add that to a lot of hop flavour and the saison yeast flavour, you have masses of flavours, but probably the most difficult balancing act a brewer can have. Saisons focus on yeast flavour. IPAs focus on intense hop flavour. Stouts focus on roast malt flavour. Putting all three together can be amazing but also the opposite.

Success comes partly from trial and error but also through knowing what specific grains, hops and yeasts taste like.

 

[Freelancer]

I haven't decided on my base grain yet to be honest, not knowledgible enough to know what would fit well. My basic "taste" idea behind the recipe will be approx. 5%abv 55-65IBU with the slight roast flavour peaking over the sour notes.

My current "ideas" for special malts/yeasts/hops are:
grains
http://www.beergrains.com/midnight-wheat-malt-briess/
http://www.beergrains.com/blackprinz...d-malt-briess/
http://www.beergrains.com/acidulated-malt-best-malz/
http://www.beergrains.com/special-b-chateau/
Hops
http://www.beergrains.com/falconers-flight-hops-1oz/
http://www.beergrains.com/motueka-nz-hops/
http://www.beergrains.com/pilgrim-uk-hops-oz/
yeasts
http://www.beergrains.com/the-yeast-bay-saison-blend/
http://www.beergrains.com/white-labs...is-trois-vrai/

 

[clibit]

Special B is another strong and distinctive flavour. Midnight wheat would work well I reckon. Falconers Flight is a mix of several hops so maybe no need to add another at the flavour end. There's a good choice of saison yeasts.