First AG BIAB

[mc88]

After reading the have a go at simple AG thread I'm planning my first AG BIAB (and I'm after some advice!). I'd like to do a 9L brew (x2 demijohns and will experiment using different hops to dry hop) and have a 16L pot. Would this be big enough to do a full volume mash (no sparge)? I'd like to keep it quite simple but would like to do a slightly stronger version of Brewdog's Dead Pony Club. What sort of efficiency can I expect from this method, around 55-60%? Also, I like to plan the brew using some sort of brewing software so I know all of my volumes and target OG before starting. Which software would be best for this? If anyone can help me out with calculations etc then it would be highly appreciated! Cheers

 

[bomberns127]

checkout beersmith, its free for 21 days i think

 

[Ajhutch]

I reckon on being able to brew a batch size half my pot size when I do full BIAB (I have a 30L pot and do 15L batches) of reasonbly sessionable strength beer, so you should just about be ok. If needed you can always top up with a little extra water at the end which would obviously reduce your gravity but get the volume where you want.

You've chosen a sensible Brewdog recipe (rather than some of their bigger ABV stuff) if you are going to target a little higher than the 1.040 from DIY Dog. If I was you I would, for your first few brews, use BeerSmith (the mobile version is free for phone or ipad and perfectly fine for the basics) and it's in built assumption of 70% efficiency or whatever it is to design your recipes, and see if you do or don't hit the expected OG. If you are consistently low then subsequently you increase your quantities. Basically I'm suggesting you let the first few batches happen and see how they come out rather than trying to over engineer them.

Best of luck, there's no turning back once you're all grain! :thumb:

 

[mc88]

I reckon on being able to brew a batch size half my pot size when I do full BIAB (I have a 30L pot and do 15L batches) of reasonbly sessionable strength beer, so you should just about be ok. If needed you can always top up with a little extra water at the end which would obviously reduce your gravity but get the volume where you want.

You've chosen a sensible Brewdog recipe (rather than some of their bigger ABV stuff) if you are going to target a little higher than the 1.040 from DIY Dog. If I was you I would, for your first few brews, use BeerSmith (the mobile version is free for phone or ipad and perfectly fine for the basics) and it's in built assumption of 70% efficiency or whatever it is to design your recipes, and see if you do or don't hit the expected OG. If you are consistently low then subsequently you increase your quantities. Basically I'm suggesting you let the first few batches happen and see how they come out rather than trying to over engineer them.

Best of luck, there's no turning back once you're all grain! :thumb:

Thanks for your reply. I've been looking through the Greg Hughes book and think I'm going to go for the Amarillo Single Hop Ale and scale the recipe down. The recipe is for 23L so if I'm doing a 9L batch is it as simple as reducing all the ingredients (grain, hops, protofloc, yeast) by the same ratio?

As I'm going to do a full volume mash, would I reduce the total liquor by the same ratio too? The recipe states a total liquor of 32L so would I mash in 12.5L? (32/2.55=12.5)

In your experience, what efficiency do you usually get with this method?

 

[Ajhutch]

Protofloc and yeast I wouldn't bother, chuck a whole tablet and a whole sachet of dry yeast in (split across your two DJs) and it won't do you any harm.

I don't know the precise recipe but yes if you scale down the grains, hops and water you'll be in the ball park. When you do BIAB in a single pot this approach work for water, some systems have water losses built in which are independent of batch size so the adjustments there would be different.

 

[mc88]

Protofloc and yeast I wouldn't bother, chuck a whole tablet and a whole sachet of dry yeast in (split across your two DJs) and it won't do you any harm.

I don't know the precise recipe but yes if you scale down the grains, hops and water you'll be in the ball park. When you do BIAB in a single pot this approach work for water, some systems have water losses built in which are independent of batch size so the adjustments there would be different.

If I send you my draft recipe when I get home would you be able to have a quick look at it and let me know if it looks okay or what adjustments you would make? Thanks again! :)

 

[Ajhutch]

No problem, just post it here and we can take a look

 

[Spapro]

If I send you my draft recipe when I get home would you be able to have a quick look at it and let me know if it looks okay or what adjustments you would make? Thanks again! :)

Add a 1/4 protofloc tablet into the boiler (last 10 minutes of the boil). A full tablet will be way too much for 9 litres brewlength and may give issues with clumbing in the boiler. A half tablet in a 23l brewlength is more than enough.

For 9 litres your recipe would be:
1.8kg Pale Malt
90g Carapils

start of boil (1hr 10 mins says greg hughes) = 21g amarillo
last 15 mins = 11g amarillo
last 10 mins = add the 1/4 protofloc tablet
last 5 mins = 11g amarillo
At turn off (flameout) = 32g amarillo

For working out how much water to start with, its best to work from the end point backwards so:
9litres into FV
+ say 1 litre lost to trub in boiler/deadspace
+ say 1.5 litres lost to boil off during the boil
+ 2litres absorbed to the grain
= 13.5 litres starting volume

Should be just about do able in your 16 litre pot.

Heat your mash water to 70°C - should give you a mash temp of around 65-66°C once you add the grains.

Squeeze the bejesus out of the grain bag once lifted out after the mash (wear insulated rubber marigolds to avoid burning your hands) to minimise losses to the grain and maximise the volume of wort you start the boil with.

First brew out with a new approach or equipment is always a bit of a guestimate/learning curve - take detailed notes and you can make adjustments accordingly for your next brew.

Good luck with it - absolutely no way back from all grain !!!

 

[mc88]

Add a 1/4 protofloc tablet into the boiler (last 10 minutes of the boil). A full tablet will be way too much for 9 litres brewlength and may give issues with clumbing in the boiler. A half tablet in a 23l brewlength is more than enough.

For 9 litres your recipe would be:
1.8kg Pale Malt
90g Carapils

start of boil (1hr 10 mins says greg hughes) = 21g amarillo
last 15 mins = 11g amarillo
last 10 mins = add the 1/4 protofloc tablet
last 5 mins = 11g amarillo
At turn off (flameout) = 32g amarillo

For working out how much water to start with, its best to work from the end point backwards so:
9litres into FV
+ say 1 litre lost to trub in boiler/deadspace
+ say 1.5 litres lost to boil off during the boil
+ 2litres absorbed to the grain
= 13.5 litres starting volume

Should be just about do able in your 16 litre pot.

Heat your mash water to 70°C - should give you a mash temp of around 65-66°C once you add the grains.

Squeeze the bejesus out of the grain bag once lifted out after the mash (wear insulated rubber marigolds to avoid burning your hands) to minimise losses to the grain and maximise the volume of wort you start the boil with.

First brew out with a new approach or equipment is always a bit of a guestimate/learning curve - take detailed notes and you can make adjustments accordingly for your next brew.

Good luck with it - absolutely no way back from all grain !!!

You have saved me the work scaling down the brew, thanks! Also thank you for the water calculations. What efficiency would you say the original recipe is based on and what would you expect from the method I am going to use?

Yeah I will make sure I take a note of all stages of brewing. The only thing I don't have is a thermometer, are there any that you guys would recommend? Also where would you recommend buying the ingredients from?

Would it be worth adding half a Camden tablet to the water before I heat the mash liquor? I was hoping to set up a brew fridge before I set this brew away but think I will just get this brewed first as if I keep putting it off then it will never get done!

 

[Spapro]

You have saved me the work scaling down the brew, thanks! Also thank you for the water calculations. What efficiency would you say the original recipe is based on and what would you expect from the method I am going to use?

Yeah I will make sure I take a note of all stages of brewing. The only thing I don't have is a thermometer, are there any that you guys would recommend? Also where would you recommend buying the ingredients from?

Would it be worth adding half a Camden tablet to the water before I heat the mash liquor? I was hoping to set up a brew fridge before I set this brew away but think I will just get this brewed first as if I keep putting it off then it will never get done!

Most recipes use 70% efficiency, not sure what you will achieve but don't worry about that first time out, just make sure you note your starting gravity (at 21°C) so you know if your process is about right.

Wilkos do a thermometer (and a hydrometer if you need one of those) if you have one close ? If not you could look up a local home brew shop for your ingredients and a thermometer.

If buying online worth looking at themaltmiller.co.uk, thehomebrewcompany.co.uk or geterbrewed.co.uk

THBC and geterbrewed have a forum discount code (5% off).

Make sure you order crushed grains (or you will have to crush your own !)

Good luck with it, jump in and give it a go - you will end up with good beer even if you miss your target gravity or volumes first time out.

 

[Duxuk]

I have a 32l stockpot. I brewed 20l until I added a sparge stage. Now I can do 25l with no boiling over issues. It might not be a good idea for a first time but when you're comfortable with your system it would allow you to brew more.
By leaving out some of the initial water you have room for the extra grain. When this is removed and sparged you add the sparging water back to the pan. You also improve efficiency because the water retained in the grain is of a lower gravity, so logically more sugar ends up in the boil.

 

[mc88]

Most recipes use 70% efficiency, not sure what you will achieve but don't worry about that first time out, just make sure you note your starting gravity (at 21°C) so you know if your process is about right.

Wilkos do a thermometer (and a hydrometer if you need one of those) if you have one close ? If not you could look up a local home brew shop for your ingredients and a thermometer.

If buying online worth looking at themaltmiller.co.uk, thehomebrewcompany.co.uk or geterbrewed.co.uk

THBC and geterbrewed have a forum discount code (5% off).

Make sure you order crushed grains (or you will have to crush your own !)

Good luck with it, jump in and give it a go - you will end up with good beer even if you miss your target gravity or volumes first time out.

I've got a hydrometer but will check out wilkos for a thermometer. I'll get some stuff ordered and get this on as soon as possible. Will let you know how I get on!

 

[mc88]

I have a 32l stockpot. I brewed 20l until I added a sparge stage. Now I can do 25l with no boiling over issues. It might not be a good idea for a first time but when you're comfortable with your system it would allow you to brew more.
By leaving out some of the initial water you have room for the extra grain. When this is removed and sparged you add the sparging water back to the pan. You also improve efficiency because the water retained in the grain is of a lower gravity, so logically more sugar ends up in the boil.

This sounds interesting! Thanks for your input. So how do you sparge the water you left out, by dunk sparging?

 

[Duxuk]

Yes, I use 6l for a dunk sparge. You can do it in an FV. 6l is enough to cover the grains. Stir it occasionally and let it steep for 10 minutes is my favoured technique:)

 

[mc88]

Most recipes use 70% efficiency, not sure what you will achieve but don't worry about that first time out, just make sure you note your starting gravity (at 21°C) so you know if your process is about right.

Wilkos do a thermometer (and a hydrometer if you need one of those) if you have one close ? If not you could look up a local home brew shop for your ingredients and a thermometer.

If buying online worth looking at themaltmiller.co.uk, thehomebrewcompany.co.uk or geterbrewed.co.uk

THBC and geterbrewed have a forum discount code (5% off).

Make sure you order crushed grains (or you will have to crush your own !)

Good luck with it, jump in and give it a go - you will end up with good beer even if you miss your target gravity or volumes first time out.

My Geterbrewed order arrived yesterday ready for brewday on Friday! The discount code didn't work though. The Amarillo pellets that arrived have a higher alpha acid % compared to the recipe. Is there any calculators online where I can adjust the amount of hops required?

Is a Campden tablet necessary if I'm using bottled water? Will any regular supermarket bottled water be okay for this brew? Does the 1/4 protofloc tablet need to be crushed before adding?

I've got some small muslin bags to put the hops in during the boil. Would you recommend using a different bag for each hop addition or just one?

Sorry for the million questions, I just want to make sure I'm confident Friday is going to go to plan! :whistle:

 

[hamster]

My Geterbrewed order arrived yesterday ready for brewday on Friday! The discount code didn't work though. The Amarillo pellets that arrived have a higher alpha acid % compared to the recipe. Is there any calculators online where I can adjust the amount of hops required?

https://www.brewersfriend.com/

They allow you to recreate your recipe and you can alter the a/a

Is a Campden tablet necessary if I'm using bottled water? Will any regular supermarket bottled water be okay for this brew?

Never use one so no comment

Does the 1/4 protofloc tablet need to be crushed before adding?

Just bung it in and savor in the reaction (my favorite bit of the brew!)

I've got some small muslin bags to put the hops in during the boil. Would you recommend using a different bag for each hop addition or just one?

I don't use bags, just lob the hops in you'll get more flavor from them. Deal with the mess later...

Incidentally my efficiency from BIAB comes out between 71-74% generally and I'm doing nothing special.

I always find my boil off rates are bigger than most as well. It's trial and error with your set up though everyone will be different. Make AS MANY notes as you can, different hydro readings at each stage, weight of hops, times, amount of water etc etc. You'll be able to tweak on the second brew to make it better...

I screwed up my first BIAB and the beer still came out more than drinkable :thumb:

 

[Spapro]

Some good answers there from Hamster.

What alpha acid Amarillo was the recipe based on ? and what alpha acid are the Amarillo hops you have received ?

I suspect they are close enough to just use as is without it affecting the brewed beer to any noticeable effect.

 

[mc88]

So, finally got around to brewing this on Friday and it took a lot longer than I thought it would! However, I'm pretty confident that it'll be a lot quicker next time around. The recipe I finally went with was:

AG1 - BIAB Amarillo Single Hop Ale (Greg Hughes)

Batch Size: 9L (fermenter)
Target OG: 1050
Estimated FG: 1012
Estimated ABV: 5%
Bitterness: 40IBU

Mash
13.5L (full volume)
Mash Temp: 65 degC
Strike Temp: 70 degC
Mash Time: 60min

1.8kg Marris Otter Pale Ale
90g Weyermann Carapils

Boil
Boil Time: 70min

15g Amarillo 6.6% @ start of boil
7g Amarillo 6.6% - last 15 min
1/4 Protofloc - last 15 min
7g Amarillo 6.6% - last 5 min
23g Amarillo 6.6% - @ turn off (80 degC)

Firstly, I made a mash coat for the pan from the foil bubble wrap stuff and used Velcro to secure it.



I then measured out the grain and hops - the smell of the Amarillo pellets was amazing!



After making sure all equipment was cleaned and sterilised with Star San, I added 13.5L of water and began heating to strike temp. Starting temp was 19.7 degC and it took approx. 24mins to heat to 70 degC. Is it advisable to leave the lid on at this point?



I added the grain bag and began doughing in. After adding all the grain, I took a temp measurement and the mash was at 66 degC. I made sure there were no dough balls and stirred well but the temp was slightly hotter in the centre (this is where I took my measurement from). Is this okay?



I placed the mash coat that I made earlier in place and left the grains to steep. I'll continue the rest of my brew day later today!

 

[mc88]

At the end of the mash the temp was measured at 66.1 degC so pretty much no temperature loss during the mash? I squeezed the grain bag in a spare pan and then added this back to the rest of the wort. This left me with a pre-boil volume of 13L. I was expecting to lose more to grain absorption as 0.5L doesn't seem much for a grain bill just shy of 2kg?

I fired up the burner and began heating up for the boil. Should I have the lid on or off when boiling? I left it on.




I was left with a post boil volume of 11L so transferred the pot to the sink and began cooling. I used 2 bags of ice but it still took over an hour to cool, the last few degrees took forever to get it to around 20degC.



I transferred some of the cooled wort to my hydrometer and measured the OG at 1.046 so a few points short of my target but still happy enough with that! After having 11L left after the boil, I only managed to get approx. 8.5L syphoned into my demijohns before the trub was disturbed meaning I lost 2.5L! I was doing well for my volumes before this point, is this normal?



I then added the yeast, spreading the packet of Safale US-05 between the 2 demijohns and have had them fermenting away at 18 degC since Friday. Most of the activity seems to have stopped now but will leave it another 10 days of so before bottling.




Once it got going, it was bubbling away around 1 bubble per second but has now dropped to one every 10-15 seconds.



Overall, I enjoyed the brew day but it took me around 7 hours start to finish! I think I'll be able to knock at least a few hours off that next time around but I still feel like I have ended up with quite a modest amount of beer for the time spent. However, I think I've learnt plenty.

One thing I found a bit of a clart on was siphoning the wort into the demijohns and don't think I will use demijohns again. In future, I will use the normal fermenting bins that I have previously used with kits. The main reason I used the DJs was that it was my first AG brew so wanted to watch what was happening during fermentation. How do you guys siphon to your fermenter? Would you recommend an auto siphon?

As for the mention of not getting much beer, I think I'm going to go for a 33L pot so should be able to get close to 20L. Is it worth getting all of the fittings on this such as tap, thermometer, sight glass etc?

 

[hamster]

Seems like a good 1st brew to me !

Everything your asking is down to personal preference. Brulospohy has some good articles that have tested options your mentioning. Lid on/off boils and mashes for example. Personally I think for the average homebrewer, especially starting out, it makes no difference...

http://brulosophy.com/exbeeriments/

I use the plastic fermentors and have used taps and the base and siphons. I flit between using both tbh but always found I can get more beer out of FV when siphoned however you have to be careful to leave the trub. I don't like wasting beer. A tap however gives you consistent wastage which you could build into your process to compensate for. It's all about knowing your boil offs, grain absorption etc for your setup which will be unquiet to you