Electrical problem

[Daveg]

Hi all.
My system uses 2 x 10 Gal plastic bins with 2 x Tesco kettle elements in each which work brilliantly but the problem I'm having is the extension cables I'm using are getting hot. I currently plug one in in the kitchen and the other in the outhouse.
I brewed this Friday gone and the plug melted slightly on the boiler. In the past I have had problems with one of the plug sockets in the kitchen as well due to the heat.
I use a fan to cool things down but there's obviously a problem. Might I just need a thicker extension cable?
Can anyone help please as i know absolutely nothing about electrics, amps, ring circuits etc.

 

[Daveg]

Sorry I might have put this in the wrong place.

 

[dennisking]

Moved :thumb:

 

[Daveg]

Thankyou :

 

[brewtim]

Hi all.
My system uses 2 x 10 Gal plastic bins with 2 x Tesco kettle elements in each which work brilliantly but the problem I'm having is the extension cables I'm using are getting hot. I currently plug one in in the kitchen and the other in the outhouse.
I brewed this Friday gone and the plug melted slightly on the boiler. In the past I have had problems with one of the plug sockets in the kitchen as well due to the heat.
I use a fan to cool things down but there's obviously a problem. Might I just need a thicker extension cable?
Can anyone help please as i know absolutely nothing about electrics, amps, ring circuits etc.

What wattage are the kettle elements? There may be voltage drop along the length of the extensions causing AMPS to go up, how long are the extensions and are they completely unwound, what is the total length of cable from the house consumer unit to the point of consumption? What is the rating of the extensions, they should be at 13 AMPS each to be able to deliver satisfactorily to a 2Kw element drawing 8A (for example)?

 

[Daveg]

Hi,
the extension cables are made from an extension cable i had lying around that's why I used it, both are approx 10 feet in length. The elements are from cheap Tesco kettles (£4.99) other than that I don't know anything about amps etc.
Consumer Unit? The sockets are approx 5 feet for the kitchen and 8 or 9 feet away for the outhouse to the boiler etc. which is cooler, i suspect it's because it runs outside the kitchen window. They are both unwound when in use.
The plugs are heating up at the sockets.

 

[joe1002]

First off I'm not an electrician, if you are in any doubt, contact a qualified electrician.

Are you plugging all four elements in at the same time? :shock:

The tesco value kettle elements are 2.2kw which is near as damn it 9amp. Therefore, to be safe you need to plug each element to a separate ring main. You may find your upstairs plugs are on a different ring to the downstairs. In reality though that means you can probably only have two elements on at any one time.

As brewtim says, you need to know the rating of the cable you used, it may not be up to the job.

 

[rpt]

You should make sure your extension cables are rated at 13A and fully unwound. It sounds like you are using any old bit of cable so it probably isn't thick enough.

A ring main can handle 30A but that is obviously for everything on that circuit. A single socket can handle 13A and a double socket can't handle much more.

What is getting too warm? The cable or the plugs? How many elements are in use at the same time?

 

[Daveg]

Hi,
I only have 2 on at a time. I'll try getting a better quality extension lead for starters and try and run one upstairs, perhaps the outhouse and kitchen are on the same ring main.

Thanks for the replies fellas.

 

[Daveg]

Hi
Cable and plugs get warm and only 2 elements are in use at one time. The extension was a proper 13amp extension lead, I wouldn't use just anything but it wasn't the best quality I don't suppose.

 

[ScottM]

Extensions need to be fully wound out and definitely rated to suit.

If you are certain the extensions are 13a then I can only assume it's down to the wiring. Take every plug apart and check the connections very closely. I had an extension that was a bit hit and miss and would heat up during use, took it apart and the live cable was connected via about 3 strands.

Each connection must have a good contact and be screwed down tight.

If all that is OK then I can only suggest beefing up the extensions or the extension cable. If buying new cable I would go with 6mm.

HTH

 

[Rukula]

If you go ask any proffessional electrician, they will tell you that you are doing something really dangerous, and maybe illegal.

If some part of your system is melting when using extension cables, it probably means that you should not use them, or get a way better cable...

I recently asked a local electrician about extending the cable on my 3500W induction heater, and he had a really simple answer: Don't do it, its illegal, its one of the best ways to start a fire in your home... :electric:

 

[Daveg]

All the plugs etc are wired properly and I didn't just pick up any old piece of wire, I used a proper extension lead. I said i don't know much about electrics not "i'm stupid!"
I'm Just trying to run a 2 kettle elements for 90 minutes. Knowing that the cables get warm I monitor them continuously. Anyway I'll beef up my cables and run them off different ring mains and hopefully that'll do the trick. I'm not sure of the amp rating of this extension lead so i'll get one that i do now.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[the new brew]

you cutting it close with 2.2kw that is almost over 10 amps and running this for 90 mins will get that cable hot really extension cable (round 3 core) is not designed for that sort of use what you need is some T + E (flat gray 3 core) most extension cable is only around 1.5mm cable as they are designed for short term use, i would really advise you to try and get some 2.5mm T + E, or better still get an elec in to run a 4mm from your dis board and have two outside sockets bit pricy i know but its the best way, if not use some 2.5mm wire to a plug top bit tricky but it can be done and use two different ring mains best way to find them out just turn one ring off and see what sockets are working and which one's int then you have your two rings PLEASE make sure that you have RCD as you're dealing with water there is always a danger of elec shock so please be careful

 

[Daveg]

Brilliant thanks for the reply.
I'd already found two ring circuits to use, one's the cooker one and the other used to be for the immersion heater upstairs. I've got some 16 amp camping electric hook-up cable that I could try (?) I've got some flat grey cable but it's only 1mm and says suitable for lighting circuits only which is a shame as I've got 50 meters of that! I've just been reading the brewing how-to about Tesco kettle elements but it doesn't mention any problems. Someone must be having the same problems. I've got a HLT and a boiler with these elements in. Simple enough to make but nobody mentions you have to have an electrician in to run the damned things.

 

[brewtim]

Brilliant thanks for the reply.
I'd already found two ring circuits to use, one's the cooker one and the other used to be for the immersion heater upstairs. I've got some 16 amp camping electric hook-up cable that I could try (?) I've got some flat grey cable but it's only 1mm and says suitable for lighting circuits only which is a shame as I've got 50 meters of that! I've just been reading the brewing how-to about Tesco kettle elements but it doesn't mention any problems. Someone must be having the same problems. I've got a HLT and a boiler with these elements in. Simple enough to make but nobody mentions you have to have an electrician in to run the damned things.

You don't need an electrician unless:

[*]You don't know what you are doing (but I'm guessing you know what you need to do now from this thread :clap: )
[*]You need Part P certification for a permanent installation (an extension cable is not a permanent installation)

16 Amp hook cable should be fine :pray:

 

[the new brew]

definitely don't use the 1.0mm as this only has a current rating of 10 amps. the 16 amp cable you talk of is only still 1.5mm but iv been thinking about your extension lead i have seen these in sizes of 0.75mm to 1.5mm so you might have the smaller size cable you can go for it and see how it gos, what you got to think is on the plug is a 13 amp fuse and hoping your diss board will have a rcd so you will be nice and covered, there are other things i could go into like if you have any exposed metals where you're using the elements you could bond them all together and see if you can get a good earth to them its just worrying with the water like in your bathroom all metalwork is bonded together and its bonded back to the main board for safety reasons just be careful as you can not see electricity you can only feel it

 

[Daveg]

Hi, thanks I'll give it a try. I've already done 8 or 9 brews on this setup so it can't be any worse. There's an RCD in my fuse box if there's any dramas.
The 1.0mm's been relegated back to the shed.
Definitely got 2 separate ring circuits and a beefier cable so if that doesn't sort it out I'll speak to an electrician (just speak mind!) I'm going to check everything today.
I've just this second had "brew beers like those you buy" through the letterbox so I'm off for a read, and that opens another can of worms!!!!! Is nothing simple? Anyway, Thanks again.

 

[Fil]

Not all plugs are 13a rated, especially if you have reused one from a low power device like a lamp.

i use extention leads, and kettle elements in my patio brewery.. i use 2.5mm flex and plugs rated at 13a, plugged into 2 seperate rings, running no more than 2 elements at a time for a few years trouble free :)

 

[TRXnMe]

You have repeatedly stated the plugs connecting to the elements are getting hot, are they hotter than the cable?

What plugs did you use? Maplins sell two, one is rated for 10 Amps (just about adequate for a value kettle element) the other is rated at 6 Amps, way too low a rating for a value element.

If the spring clips that press onto the element contacts have got hot they may have softened up, therefore less good contact next time around, repeat until something goes pop.

Do you have any photos of your set up? A picture might let us spot something you haven't considered important, but experience has told us matters :)