Easy clean / Chemsan etc

[Cheyne_brewer]

Does anyone have a good value source for liquid no-rinse sanitiser (Easyclean, Chemsan etc).

£20+ plus p&p for a litre is a little “surprising” to say the least!

 

[MashBag]

Use caustic TFR.. Does much better and cheaper.

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

Use caustic TFR.. Does much better and cheaper.

I presume that will also handle the cleaning side. Currently I use oxi cleaner or neat sodium percarbonate for cleaning and no rinse sanitizer after.

 

[MashBag]

Yup. Game changer

But rinse it thoroughly.

 

[brewsby]

Does anyone have a good value source for liquid no-rinse sanitiser (Easyclean, Chemsan etc).

£20+ plus p&p for a litre is a little “surprising” to say the least!

A litre of chemsan makes 500 litres of the actual sanitiser. I rarely use more than half a litre in a brew session. It's pennies per brew unless you're one of those people who fill entire kegs with the stuff then pour it down the drain.

 

[Stu]

Yup, be aware that sanitiser is just that. It's rubbish for trying to clean anything. Personally, for cleaning, I use VWP. You don't need to use a lot of it.

 

[Sadfield]

I've been brewing for 10 years and on my 3rd bottle of starsan, the previous two were the tiny 237ml bottles. I'm pretty wasteful with it, too, never reusing.

 

[peebee]

Chemsan is just a sanitiser, not a cleaner ... but the "Easyclean", whatever that is, might be used beforehand? I can't see the difference 'tween "Chemsan" and "Starsan"? Apart from Chemsan having a propyl-alcohol base. 500litres of made up "Starsan"! that puts £20 in context! But some do turn their noses up at dodecyl benzenesulfonic acid as a "killer" (it's a surfactant and disrupts cell walls ... also creates the foam!) but I'm happy with it. It is no-rinse and an acid sanitiser ... don't leave it in contact with soft metal more than three minutes (and there's no need to).

I use Sodium Percarbonate (oxy-whatever, dozens of propriety names) to do the cleaning. It is not no-rinse, I don't care what people say ... I don't think they have viable taste buds.

 

[brewsby]

I can't see the difference 'tween "Chemsan" and "Starsan"

Working as intended then. As far as I remember, Chemsan started cropping up the online brewshops when Starsan supplies disappeared from this side of the pond a couple of years back. It's sold as a like for like replacement and that's essentially how I ended up with some as a supplier claimed to have stock of Starsan and then did a bait and switch. Seems fine though.

 

[aolcot]

Also if you are able to use distilled/RO water to make up the Chemsan (or Starsan), then a batch will last a good while. I make up batches of 5L at a time and keep it handy to dunk things in as needed. A batch for me can last 2-4 weeks with my usage. When it gets too cloudy/mucky, then I just bin it and create a fresh batch. So a litre of the stuff goes a long way and could last years

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

A litre of chemsan makes 500 litres of the actual sanitiser. I rarely use more than half a litre in a brew session. It's pennies per brew unless you're one of those people who fill entire kegs with the stuff then pour it down the drain.

I fill my used fermenter after cleaning and decant into an empty 25l bin or fermenter when required. I use very hard tap water as I have no RO source so it doesn’t last forever. I’m down to my last few mil in the bottle so time to restock. I was just surprised at the price now - when I bought the last bottle about 2 years ago it was £13!

 

[aolcot]

I fill my used fermenter after cleaning and decant into an empty 25l bin or fermenter when required. I use very hard tap water as I have no RO source so it doesn’t last forever. I’m down to my last few mil in the bottle so time to restock. I was just surprised at the price now - when I bought the last bottle about 2 years ago it was £13!

BKT are doing 1L for about £17, cheapest I can find.. everything in homebrewing has rocketed over last couple of years

 

[James Burton]

Dr. Johnson's Sterilising Fluid, from my local Savers, Health, Home, Beauty store, label states "Home Brewing - use as replacement for usual steriliser". Works fine and £1 per litre bottle - dilute at 50ml per 4 pints.

 

[Keruso]

Does anyone have a good value source for liquid no-rinse sanitiser (Easyclean, Chemsan etc).

£20+ plus p&p for a litre is a little “surprising” to say the least!

I use distilled water mixed with starsan and reuse the sanitizer time and time again. I occasionally check it with PH Strips to make sure it’s still effective. I have a bottle of starsan that’s only half empty, it’s seven years old.

 

[Keruso]

Chemsan is just a sanitiser, not a cleaner ... but the "Easyclean", whatever that is, might be used beforehand? I can't see the difference 'tween "Chemsan" and "Starsan"? Apart from Chemsan having a propyl-alcohol base. 500litres of made up "Starsan"! that puts £20 in context! But some do turn their noses up at dodecyl benzenesulfonic acid as a "killer" (it's a surfactant and disrupts cell walls ... also creates the foam!) but I'm happy with it. It is no-rinse and an acid sanitiser ... don't leave it in contact with soft metal more than three minutes (and there's no need to).

I use Sodium Percarbonate (oxy-whatever, dozens of propriety names) to do the cleaning. It is not no-rinse, I don't care what people say ... I don't think they have viable taste buds.

I use an identical process sodium percab to clean and starsan to sanitize.

 

[brewsby]

I fill my used fermenter after cleaning and decant into an empty 25l bin or fermenter when required.

There's no need to fill a fermenter. All that's needed is enough to coat the inside when you give it a good shake. As I said, I rarely use more than half a litre for a brew session and that's if I don't bother saving the final runoff. I make up 2L at a time and it's used for bottles, fermenter, syphon and tubing. Providing everything being sanitised is clean (and it should be) then the same fluid just hops from one item to the next with minor losses along the way.

Sure, prices have gone up but it really isn't an expense on a per brew basis that should have you looking for cheaper alternatives. I'd probably not bother even buying a 1L bottle because it would take me decades to use it all.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I presume that will also handle the cleaning side. Currently I use oxi cleaner or neat sodium percarbonate for cleaning and no rinse sanitizer after.

TFR is also carcinogenic and toxic to your kidneys when ingested.

So you could rinse it off, or just not use it in the first place.

 

[aolcot]

TFR is also carcinogenic and toxic to your kidneys when ingested.

So you could rinse it off, or just not use it in the first place.

100% - This is a hobby where the product is ingested. Do the right thing, use sensible chemicals that are generally widely accepted as fine and sold within the food/beverage industries..

 

[Sadfield]

I use an identical process sodium percab to clean and starsan to sanitize.

All things considered. Cost, time, safety and efficacy. I don't thing there's a better system.

 

[peebee]

This I just posted on the American "Homebrew Talk" >here<.

Very relevant here too? Longish, but at the end I repeated the warning about cleaning "Tilts" and the like ("iSpindles"?) in "oxy"-type cleaners:

... "DO NOT use Oxiclean on plastic."

Not something I've heard of either, but I use "generic" (unbranded) Sodium Percarbonate so it won't have such warnings.

I imagine it's a warning for the general public? We (as brewers) generally use only "thermoplastics" "softer" plastic, e.g. PVC pipes, will not "glue" together, which would be unaffected. There is also "thermo-setting" "harder" plastics, e.g. ABS pipes, are "glued" together, plastics that could perhaps be damaged? When dealing with the "general public" you don't recite such "complicated" differences, just say "plastic" and let people think "all plastic".

Here's an illustration! The UK discourages oil based paints (because of environmentally damaging fumes). So, paints are usually water-based containing PVA plastic. Water-based paint is a pain in the bum 'cos you can't easily strip it with the paint strippers we're used to. I wash my brewing kit upstairs (including plastic), using an "oxy" cleaner (Sodium Percarbonate), run up-and-down stairs with wet hands (wet with "oxy" cleaner), and ...

... paint-stripper!

The handrail fittings are factory-painted in oil-based/"enamel" paints. And totally resistant.


Conclusion: Don't worry about "oxy" cleaners damaging your plastic bucket!

Oxiclean free (unscented version) is just sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate plus a surfactant and inert polymer. PBW contains sodium percarbonate, sodium carbonate, sodium metasilicate, sodium bicarbonate, tetrasodium pyrophosphate, and possibly a surfactant. ...

There go ... for the worried PBW users. Sodium Metasilicate is a powerful degreaser BTW, that is used instead of the environmentally disasterous Trisodium Phosphate ... but Tetrasodium Pyrophosphate!!!!!

Okay? It's for something different and perhaps isn't Trisodium Phosphate on steroids! Still, it doesn't half make "Trisodium Phosphate" sound a bit pathetic.

Interesting (?) side fact (brewing related ... roughly!) that I came across very recently: "Phosphate" and "Silicate" (think "sand") seem worlds apart? I didn't even think "silicate" could be soluble. But they are both anions that contribute Alkalinity! ("Carbonate/Bicarbonate" is just the commonest by far). Perhaps everyone here knows and I'm showing my ignorance? Just an "interesting" fact to share ... I do NOT recommend using "water glass" or toothpaste to adjust alkalinity in your mash!

[EDIT: Another "side-fact": Don't clean you "Tilt" hydrometer in "oxy" type cleaner. Or most other floaty hydrometer thingies. The "oxy" can damage the shell. Except for RAPT "Pills", and they gloat that their hydrometer is made of better stuff (they're just not as good for other reasons )]

[EDIT: Deleted reference to thermoplastic and thermosetting as in original. I was getting in a tangle trying to adapt a rationale to that. Seems it's the Sodium Metasilcate that causes damage to "harder" plastics, not Sodium Percarbonate. PBW contains metasilicate. Don't use PBW for (unnecessary) extended (>15 minutes) soaking of plastic items.]