Durden Park - Old British Beers

[Hanglow]

Sounds like I need to try that malt. What is it like compared to something like Munich II ?

 

[peebee]

I've not tried them side-by-side, but they probably are similar. I had one of those "turns" and put the colour of Imperial down as 30 EBC ... it's 45. That is more in-line with a dark Munich, and as @An Ankoù says, a bit darker than what DPBC have down for Pale Amber.

Simpson's also have the darker "Aromatic" malt (60 EBC) but I've no idea how different it is to their very good Amber (50 EBC). These are not considered diastatic.

 

[An Ankoù]

Sounds like I need to try that malt. What is it like compared to something like Munich II ?

It's not very similar. You can sort of tell that Imperial is an English malt and Munich isn't. I think it might be due to the fact that Munich is made from Pilsner malt. They're both good, but different.

 

[peebee]

I suppose ...

My comments are a bit bias 'cos the "Munich" I talk about is Crisp's, Simpson's, or Warminster's. I have no idea what continental "Munich" is like or even if it is different, nor am I likely to try it (I just seem to fail to get on with continental malts; or maybe I just refuse to get on with continental malt?). So the "Munich" malt I use is British malt.

Perhaps I should have kept me trap shut

 

[An Ankoù]

I suppose ...

My comments are a bit bias 'cos the "Munich" I talk about is Crisp's, Simpson's, or Warminster's. I have no idea what continental "Munich" is like or even if it is different, nor am I likely to try it (I just seem to fail to get on with continental malts; or maybe I just refuse to get on with continental malt?). So the "Munich" malt I use is British malt.

Perhaps I should have kept me trap shut

Not at all. It's a valid point. Mine is Either Weyermann or Bestmalz and it may well be that Crisps #2 Munich is made from the same kind of British malt as Simpson's Imperial. It may well be a better substitute for Pale Amber than Imperial or a 50 50 mix as it's lighter. Thanks, Peebee, I'm going to look into that one next time I make an order. :hat:

Edit:
Just looked at the Crisp website. Their dark Munich certainly looks worth a try. Also surprised to see that they have a Maltings on Germany, processing German and Danish malts for their German Pilsner, but not the Europils which is made here from English malts.
The colour of the dark Munich looks right, too.

 

[Hanglow]

Thanks for the input

I've used british munich once before a few years ago (not sure what maltster) and wasn't impressed at all, as it was so different from the standard Weyermann that I am use to. That is not to say that it was a bad malt, but I was expecting it to be similar to the german stuff, but it was very different! More of a specialty malt than a base malt. Helps to know your malts and not rely on what it is named I suppose.

 

[BeerGuy2020]

Thanks very much. I did find the recipe, somewhere in the conversation I started referring to the wrong book! Now reacquainted with my Durden Park book again!

My 45L of Morrell & Co 1889 Bitter (not Durden Park) started fermenting last night (after a very long brewday yesterday). Mashing Chavallier malt "Hochkurz" fashion (mashed for 2 hours 40 minutes in 4 steps, the bulk at 62-3C) seems to work well; I was 3 points over estimated OG. Remains to be seen if the wort's fermentability was improved.

How Do Mate ,
I hope it goes well for you ; a very good mate in Melbs has brewed a lot of my recipes over the past year or so following my stepped mash programmes ,
Here's some beer porn
Drybrough XP from 1906

 

[BeerGuy2020]

Well I fired off an enquiry to Durden Park and they were kind enough to check their archives and come back to me within the hour. The upshot is that, although the quality of the hops of the day was unknown, the alpha acid content was probably somewhere around 5%, and that the recipe fits in with other beers around the time and is as close as they can estimate. So it's right.

Hi An Ankoù ,
Sorry mate but that's dead wrong , you'd be lucky to get a 5 % a/a hop in the 19 Th century in the UK Domestic industry, mostly at around up to 4 % on recent crops with 5 + year olds being as low as 0.5 % a/a especially when considering age , storeage; Useage rate & purpose etc.
Best Regards
Edd

 

[Cwrw666]

Tomorrow's plan is to brew 4 gallons of recipe No.1 - Amber small beer 1823, Cobb & Co Margate.
Cooked up the necessary amber malt this morning according to their instructions. Must say it smelt lovely.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi An Ankoù ,
Sorry mate but that's dead wrong , you'd be lucky to get a 5 % a/a hop in the 19 Th century in the UK Domestic industry, mostly at around up to 4 % on recent crops with 5 + year olds being as low as 0.5 % a/a especially when considering age , storeage; Useage rate & purpose etc.
Best Regards
Edd

Well, my heart tells me that hops we not as strong in alphas then as now, but 19th century hops weren't analysed for their components. Certainly, it makes commercial strength for brewers to use fewer hops of greater bitterness and so domestic hops would have improved over time because of this and selection for disease resistance. I don't see Fuggles and Goldings progressively yielding more and more alphas over the last few decades, though.
On the other hand, age and storage conditions were probably not as well understood in the 19th C either and while this would hit the alphas heavily, other products (of oxidation for example) would be produced, which contribute to overall bitterness.
So I'm non the wiser wrt these heavy hop loads. I know some (few) beers deliberately called for aged hops so there was some understanding of how hops changed with storage. In any case, the Durden Park recipes call for ounces of hops per gallon and they have interpreted the original brewing records. Whether they've taken the differences between the hops in those recipes and the hops available today, I have no idea.

 

[Cwrw666]

And this is the 1897 Harris-Browne tonic ale which came out way stronger than anticipated at 7%. It's a bit young yet, only 3 days in the bottle but there again it says somewhere in the book that tonic ales were drunk very young to get the most effect out of the hops.
First impression - a bit `lagery', quite sweet in flavour and not very hoppy. You can taste the alcohol though so I won't be sloshing this stuff down by the bucketful.
Quite pleasant though. Think it'll improve by the time I'm in the last bottle.