Does Carbonation Pressure = Serving Pressure

[a1anm]

I am just in the process of force carbonating my first keg.

I used a force carbonation chart and based on the level of carbonation I want and the temperature I have decided on a PSI of 12.

Does this mean that once the beer is carbonated this would also be my serving pressure? Or would I use a lower serving pressure (I have seen 4-5 psi mentioned)?

 

[Drunkula]

Yes., but you might need some method of reducing the flow to serve at that pressure. If you have to you could vent, serve for a while and then repressurise back to 12psi but it's not ideal.

 

[LeeH]

If you serve at the same pressure you will keep the same volumes of CO2 throughout the kegs life.

If you reduce the pressure the pressure your beer will start to release the CO2 you have just forced in.

If your beer is coming out your tap too fast use a smaller ID pipe or make it longer or use a variable restriction of some kind i.e a flow control tap or and inline one.

 

[Jakeyboi]

Yes your serving pressure will be 12psi, you can drop it down to serve, then put it back up again when your done but it's a pain the backside. I have taps with flow adjusters on them and I just slow it right down. Works ok, the best method is to use smaller beer line and increase the length to reduce pressure to the tap.

 

[a1anm]

Okay, thanks! So basically, if it is coming out too fast I can just keep making the length of the line longer until I hit a sweet spot?

 

[LeeH]

Yes, or reduce to a smaller line.

 

[xozzx]

If you are using 3/8" beer line then it is probably best to reduce it to 3/16". I dont remember the actual values but to drop from about 10 psi to good serving pressure needs about 3m of 3/16" line but about 30m of 3/8". I have 3/8" line and flow control taps but still get too much foaming, I bought a load of 3/16" line and plan to change it over soon.

 

[Dutto]

Why did you choose 12psi? A brew can be carbonated and served at a much lower pressure.

I use 1g per litre of brewing sugar for initial carbonation and then try and keep the serving pressure at +/-5psi.

Less foaming into the glass, less CO2 used and a lot less belching after drinking!

 

[LeeH]

How do you know that without knowing the style or storage temp.

5 psi is pretty low unless storing well into single figures.

I am serving at 10 psi at the moment as it gives me the volume I require for the style.


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[Dutto]

How do you know that without knowing the style or storage temp.

5 psi is pretty low unless storing well into single figures.

I am serving at 10 psi at the moment as it gives me the volume I require for the style.

Er ... just WHO sets what you refer to as "the style" and why would anyone brew or store a beer that they didn't like?

When I started drinking, all pub beer was delivered and stored in wooden barrels, kept in a cellar that was kept cool due to its location (usually underneath the pub) and served un-chilled via a hand-pulled pump.

That is the "style" that I enjoy and try to emulate and I find that +/-5psi is just about right!

PS
What does "... unless storing well into single figures." mean? aunsure....

 

[LeeH]

The OP does, and he hasn’t given any information of what beer he is serving at what temperature.

Do you simply cannot tell him to serve at 5 PSI.

HE has looked on a carbonation chart and picked what pressure HE needs for HIS beer. The history story on how YOU drank beer years ago has no bearing whatsoever.

5 psi is simply too low if he was serving a saison at cold temps for example.

No need to get shirty.


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[peebee]

… No need to get shirty.

I don't think Dutto was getting "shirty". Your post did not read well (I still struggle with it) and I think he was hoping you'd clarify.

And any mention of "style" is likely to get peoples' backs up. Because most people connect "style" with the BJCP. Many brewing software packages use the BJCP style guides in their software (Beersmith for one) yet the BJCP style guides are nothing short of fanciful, especially when applied to UK beers. (EDIT: This was an incorrect assumption of mine … corrected in my post below).

But that's not to say I consider Dutto an angel! I think suggesting 5PSI for the "style" he is after will result in pretty fizzy beer. And getting 5PSI is well outside the ability of most peoples' equipment (single stage regulator, probably of a Neanderthal "welding" design, lucky if you can hold to 10PSI with these). Even my slick secondary regulators are not entirely reliable at 5PSI (but I also use LPG regulators that will adjust to 0.75-2PSI). Although I can appreciate that some hand-pumped beer in pubs (especially the so-called "craft beers") seem to have at least 5PSI top-pressure applied to them; or else are just badly cellar managed (vented).

 

[Dutto]

Hi there - Angel Calling!

I have just searched my personal Bible (i.e. The Beer Judge Certification Program - 2015 Style Guidelines) which are available here ...

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf

I searched for "pressure" and as far as I am aware there is just the one reference. It is in Section 11 - British Bitter (my favourite brew) and it states ...

"The family of British bitters grew out of English pale ales as a draught product in the late 1800s. The use of crystal malts in bitters became more widespread after WWI. Traditionally served very fresh under no pressure (gravity or hand pump only) at cellar temperatures (i.e., “real ale”)."

To be fair, the Guidelines do go on to state ...

"Most bottled or kegged versions of UK-produced bitters are often higher-alcohol and more highly carbonated versions of cask products produced for export, and have a different character and balance than their draught counterparts in Britain (often being sweeter and less hoppy than the cask versions)."

But then go on to explain ...

"These guidelines reflect the “real ale” version of the style, not the export formulations of commercial products."

Being a shirtless angel, I rest my case by pointing out that my main reason for brewing my own is that I dislike the crap that is sold as commercial products!

 

[Drunkula]

And **** everyone that doesn't like what I like.

 

[peebee]

Hi there - Angel Calling!

I have just searched my personal Bible (i.e. The Beer Judge Certification Program - 2015 Style Guidelines) which are available here ...

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf

...

Thanks for that. Appears I may have been maligning the BJCP guidelines based on false assumptions. My comments were based on published carbonation levels, but that PDF doesn't quote any carbonation levels beyond "low, medium, high" or the like. A quick Google gave me lots of American home-brewers whinging about the BJCP guidelines NOT having better guidance for carbonation. The figures I got were probably invented by the author of Beersmith (the software I use), perhaps taken off those demented "kegging" tables, and not by the BJCP.

The fact that had tipped my impressions was 1.3v/v of CO2 as right for British Bitter (!), which went up to 1.5 when the 2015 guide appeared. But it seems that bit of fantasy wasn't the doings of the BJCP. The bad impressions I'd got were reinforced by some (one in particular) "about beer" authors slamming the BJCP for stifling opinions about what beer is or should be (which may or may not be true).

So I stand corrected. I apologise to any BJCP members who may have read this thread. And as penance I'll go outside and tip a bucket of water over my head (no I won't, but no-one reading this will know that).

 

[baggybill]

I am just in the process of force carbonating my first keg.

I used a force carbonation chart and based on the level of carbonation I want and the temperature I have decided on a PSI of 12.

Does this mean that once the beer is carbonated this would also be my serving pressure? Or would I use a lower serving pressure (I have seen 4-5 psi mentioned)?

I force carbed all my kegs and used a PSI of ~12 for serving everything. Sometimes if I overdid the force carbing I had to let of pressure for a few days until it settled. Just meant it was extra foamy for a bit

I would say it was a bit too much gas for my stouts but it produced a nice looking pint with a nice head, kinda the sweet spot for the size/length of pipe (and temp) I was using.

Bottom line is, trial and error, find what YOU like best

PS I'm now using ~2m of 3/16 pipe... this made a massive difference to my set-up changing over from ~1m of 3/8.

 

[Dutto]

To close my contribution to this Thread this is a song from my generation. Enjoy!

 

[peebee]

… Being a shirtless angel, …

Before you go off to terrorise another thread … I (someone no-one here really knows) accused you of drinking fizzy beer earlier in this thread. I was having a go at you in frustration of not being able to get back at the person who accused me of drinking fizzy beer. Hang on, I'll go get the quote, it's on another forum …

Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk …
clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk

Here go:

It seems to me that PeeBee is aiming for something far fizzier than cask beer is meant to be ...

Who could say such a thing? Who … I'm probably committing a terrible sin and broaching taboo here … Graham Wheeler.

 

[Dutto]

.............I'm probably committing a terrible sin and broaching taboo here … Graham Wheeler.

Last one - promise!

I've just been through the Beer Style Guidelines again and apparently, apart from English Beers I could also be brewing ...

• CzechLagers
• Bocks and
• Kellerbeers

... because the all have the "Low Carbonation" that I like!

PS
Regarding the quote the phrase "Great minds think alike." is one that springs to mind ... aunsure.... aunsure....

... and another one is "No-one likes a smart-arse!"

 

[LeeH]

Hi there - Angel Calling!

I have just searched my personal Bible (i.e. The Beer Judge Certification Program - 2015 Style Guidelines) which are available here ...

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf

I searched for "pressure" and as far as I am aware there is just the one reference. It is in Section 11 - British Bitter (my favourite brew) and it states ...

"The family of British bitters grew out of English pale ales as a draught product in the late 1800s. The use of crystal malts in bitters became more widespread after WWI. Traditionally served very fresh under no pressure (gravity or hand pump only) at cellar temperatures (i.e., “real ale”)."

To be fair, the Guidelines do go on to state ...

"Most bottled or kegged versions of UK-produced bitters are often higher-alcohol and more highly carbonated versions of cask products produced for export, and have a different character and balance than their draught counterparts in Britain (often being sweeter and less hoppy than the cask versions)."

But then go on to explain ...

"These guidelines reflect the “real ale” version of the style, not the export formulations of commercial products."

Being a shirtless angel, I rest my case by pointing out that my main reason for brewing my own is that I dislike the crap that is sold as commercial products!

Nice story but way off topic.

You told the OP to use a set pressure without knowing any variables. I don't know why all the above filler is relevant.