Disappointing brew-where am I going wrong?

[johnnyboy1965]

Just seen the price of fresh vanilla pods.....ouch
Use extract
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00G7W6PCC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

A couple of points:-
2 vanilla pods is nowhere near enough. 30, quality, pods is more realistic and not the dried up vac-pak ones they sell in supermarkets. Buy quality on-line. you could use a quality vanilla extract and prime each bottle. The last bottle I bought cost �£45.00 (enough for 200 pts) so it will put 22p on the price of a beer.
With the fresh vanilla pods, scrape out the seeds, put the actual pod into your boil. The seeds are too delicate to be boiled and you will loose all the flavour and aroma. Mix the seeds with 1/2 pint of boiled and cooled stock syrup (recipe for stock syrup is 1/4pt of water, 1/4 pt of sugar, boil and cool).
Put 1 tbs of this into your bottles and fill with beer.

I worked with fresh vanilla pods every day for 15 years and must of scraped thousands of them (until I found a quality exact)

Syphoning with your mouth...There are more good bacteria, than bad on your lips. if there wasnt your lips would fall off

Vanilla porter is quite a hard brew to get right. You have to balance the malts, vanilla, and the hops. Keep the hops low or you will overpower the vanilla ( no more than 20 IBU)

Thank you, some good detailed advice there. If you need that much vanilla for it to be noticeable then it's a bit annoying, as because I am new to extract I have just been following the instructions given and buying kits which have all the ingredients provided- which was only 2 vanilla pods! I think maybe it's time I be a bit braver and start just buying ingredients myself, and following recipes from elsewhere. A lot of positive reviews about that extract kit on BrewUk though which don't mention any additions are needed, so that's a bit odd. What I did was to soak the split beans in vanilla vodka for a while (I forget how long now-I think it was a good couple of weeks then in Primary for a week and left in when I bottled!). The vanilla aroma and taste was in there when I bottled; just not now.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

I cant understand why they only supply 2 pods. Your just not going to taste or smell it.
Rule of thumb when cooking with vanilla pods ( creme brulee, custard, creme anglaise...they are all the same) is 1 pod per 1pt of liquid.
When I started using extract I got better flavours, with a lot less hassle.
Its even easier when HBing as you just pour the extract into your bottles

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

I cant understand why they only supply 2 pods. Your just not going to taste or smell it.
Rule of thumb when cooking with vanilla pods ( creme brulee, custard, creme anglaise...they are all the same) is 1 pod per 1pt of liquid.
When I started using extract I got better flavours, with a lot less hassle.
Its even easier when HBing as you just pour the extract into your bottles

Not the first let down with BrewUK to be honest- when I made the Way to Amarillo; it only called for 85g priming sugar for the batch; which a lot of other people have told me is no-where near enough for the style. There are so many positive reviews of their ingredient packs though I was assuming it was me not being very good at brewing! Leaving aside the lack of vanilla though my brew is still not all that porter-y which might be something I am doing wrong.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Also, vanilla is one of the spices that benefits from serving at room temprature, you get a lot more flavour and aroma. If your into cooking, knock up a batch of creme brulee. taste on that has been chilled and one thats served at room temp. You really can tell the difference.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Not the first let down with BrewUK to be honest- when I made the Way to Amarillo; it only called for 85g priming sugar for the batch; which a lot of other people have told me is no-where near enough for the style. There are so many positive reviews of their ingredient packs though I was assuming it was me not being very good at brewing! Leaving aside the lack of vanilla though my brew is still not all that porter-y which might be something I am doing wrong.

A porter is a quite easy brew to make nothing technical or hard.
Have a go at designing your own recipe.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

A porter is a quite easy brew to make nothing technical or hard.
Have a go at designing your own recipe.

I am mainly into super hopped US style IPA's these days so one of those will be on my agenda but I think you're right- doing it from the ground up might be way to go here! Thanks for all the responses; much appreciated.

 

[Covrich]

I am mainly into super hopped US style IPA's these days so one of those will be on my agenda but I think you're right- doing it from the ground up might be way to go here! Thanks for all the responses; much appreciated.

Probably a lot easier to get good results with them because even if you feel there may be flaws lots of hops will make up for it.

But as you discovered above sometimes its just a not great recipe which can ultimatley be disappointing..

Do not give up you will get there, so what are you looking at doing next something grapefruity punch with extract?

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Probably a lot easier to get good results with them because even if you feel there may be flaws lots of hops will make up for it.

But as you discovered above sometimes its just a not great recipe which can ultimatley be disappointing..

Do not give up you will get there, so what are you looking at doing next something grapefruity punch with extract?

I want to stick with extract mainly as I hope to get good results which will push me into trying BIAB eventually... I don't have the money or room to go all grain really and swmbo would not be amused :whistle: Overwhelmingly my fave beers these days are IPA's and the more pine / hops the better so definitely something like that. Huge fan of Punk IPA, Goose Island, Elvis Juice....I had an Arbor Super Yakima Double IPA over the weekend which was fantastic, Sixpoint Bengali- anything which aims for those sort of flavours really. I have heard amazing things about the Youngs American IPA kit so I am tempted by that but would rather stick with extract really if at all possible so a simple ish hop loaded extract recipe would be ideal.

 

[Leon103]

I don't thing I have ever seen a vanilla porter recipe calling for more than 4 pods. Unlike food you don't want an over powering vanilla taste, just a slight back drop.

When I did mine I initially did two pods and tasting after a few days I could taste vanilla. Wanting a bit more taste I added two more. But after bottling the flavour as gone. Perhaps vanilla mellows out with time?

 

[Covrich]

I want to stick with extract mainly as I hope to get good results which will push me into trying BIAB eventually... I don't have the money or room to go all grain really and swmbo would not be amused :whistle: Overwhelmingly my fave beers these days are IPA's and the more pine / hops the better so definitely something like that. Huge fan of Punk IPA, Goose Island, Elvis Juice....I had an Arbor Super Yakima Double IPA over the weekend which was fantastic, Sixpoint Bengali- anything which aims for those sort of flavours really. I have heard amazing things about the Youngs American IPA kit so I am tempted by that but would rather stick with extract really if at all possible so a simple ish hop loaded extract recipe would be ideal.

Probably looking at using hops like Chinook and Simcoe build your recipe from there, maybe steep some crystal before adding your extract.

A few things to consider
1) What size pot are you using and
2) do you add ALL your extract to the boil?

You will want to look at a yeast that will help promote the hop flavours
I would suggest Safale US05 or Mangrve Jack West Coast M44.. IMO I would not use nottingham/gervin for this as many believe and I do too that is can dampen the hop profile and slightly suppress it.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Probably looking at using hops like Chinook and Simcoe build your recipe from there, maybe steep some crystal before adding your extract.

A few things to consider
1) What size pot are you using and
2) do you add ALL your extract to the boil?

You will want to look at a yeast that will help promote the hop flavours
I would suggest Safale US05 or Mangrve Jack West Coast M44.. IMO I would not use nottingham/gervin for this as many believe and I do too that is can dampen the hop profile and slightly suppress it.

Chinook and Simcoe are fine- I have had the single hop "Ace of..." both of them in Brewdog beers; so all good flavour wise with those, I know I like them. Nearly every beer I have done has used either kit yeast or swapped them for Wilko's Gervin so yes a change wouldn't hurt. The 2 extracts used SO4 and SO5.

1) I have a 15L stock pot;
2) The Way to Amarillo I did add all the DME as per instructions, yes, but it got VERY near to boiling over on a brand new hob, so when I did the Vanilla Porter I followed the "Beany" method of extract from the forum and only added the extract at the end- boiling the hops in 6L of water instead. That seemed to work fine, a lot easier to add as no clumping in the steam and no possibility of a boil over.

If you have any recipe ideas for a hoppy IPA I'd be happy to give it a shot!

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

I don't thing I have ever seen a vanilla porter recipe calling for more than 4 pods. Unlike food you don't want an over powering vanilla taste, just a slight back drop.

When I did mine I initially did two pods and tasting after a few days I could taste vanilla. Wanting a bit more taste I added two more. But after bottling the flavour as gone. Perhaps vanilla mellows out with time?

Hmm could be- although to me it is still a bit "bland" for a porter. I know you shouldn't compare but I popped open a commercial baltic porter at the same time as my own and mine was like water next to that one; flavours wise.

 

[Covrich]

You will want some extract in there to help isometrise (sp) the hops.

What I would do is add 50% of you extract at the start of the boil (post steeping any speciality grains) and the last half at the end.

Adding all the extract will make the gravity of the wort you boil higher and will reduce the hop utilisation.

What I would do is then get your hops for your 60 min boil set it at around the IBUS you want and then personally I would have some late additions in the boil, some after the boil whilst cooling and steeping and then you could add some for a dry hop

The hop schedule is a point in contention where as some throw ALL their flavour and aroma hops in after flame out whereas some of us still have late additions and flame out work better for various levels.. I fall in the latter category but as with all these things you are better off trying them for yourself.

 

[BeerCat]

So far none of the beers I have made with vanilla pods taste of it at all. 2 pods in the boil and vodka soaked beans have done nothing. Neither has extract. I might try with 10 next time but it's obviously not cheap.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

So far none of the beers I have made with vanilla pods taste of it at all. 2 pods in the boil and vodka soaked beans have done nothing. Neither has extract. I might try with 10 next time but it's obviously not cheap.

Which extract did you use?

 

[Antony]

Personally I've had no luck with vanilla. Typically it just ends with an unpleasant sulfurous taste, which is something I've observed in some commercial vanilla stouts, too

If I were you, I'd just do a couple of basic Hopps SMaSH brews, its usually what I do when I've had a few bad brews

 

[johnnyboy1965]

I don't thing I have ever seen a vanilla porter recipe calling for more than 4 pods. Unlike food you don't want an over powering vanilla taste, just a slight back drop.

When I did mine I initially did two pods and tasting after a few days I could taste vanilla. Wanting a bit more taste I added two more. But after bottling the flavour as gone. Perhaps vanilla mellows out with time?

Try this experiment:-
Take 1 vanilla pod, scrape out the seeds and put "outer pod" into 2 pints of water. Simmer for 1 hour, cool and then add the seeds. Give it a good swirl and taste...you will just get a very slight flavour and aroma (Ive already done this this morning....now your are going to put this into 23li of wort, with very strong flavoured malts, hops and yeast......you will not be able to taste, smell any vanilla at all

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Personally I've had no luck with vanilla. Typically it just ends with an unpleasant sulfurous taste, which is something I've observed in some commercial vanilla stouts, too

If I were you, I'd just do a couple of basic Hopps SMaSH brews, its usually what I do when I've had a few bad brews

JMHO...I dont think that commercial brewers would use fresh vanilla or vanilla extract. They probably use cheap vanilla flavourings.
P.S. Please dont put this crap in your beer.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Another thing Ive just remembered...vanilla seeds are very heavy, that is why they sink, even when cooked in cream....so most of the seeds are probably in the trub in the bottom of your bottle