Death by cycle.

[Chippy_Tea]

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Can I ask members not to turn the thread into a cyclists vs car drivers argument we have discussed cyclists in the past and most agreed there are bad cyclists and bad car drivers its always the few that spoil it for the majority.​

Please read the full article before commenting as this is only a small part of it.​

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Death by dangerous cycling set to become offence - BBC News​

Causing death or serious injury by dangerous or careless cycling is set to become an offence, after the government agreed to a change in the law.

Under the change, dangerous cyclists could face up to 14 years in prison.

It followed campaigning by Tory MP Iain Duncan Smith who said cyclists should be accountable for reckless behaviour.

The former Conservative leader had proposed an amendment to the Criminal Justice Bill, which is currently going through Parliament.

Speaking in the House of Commons, Sir Iain said his proposal was not "anti-cycling".

"Quite the opposite, it's about making sure this takes place in a safe and reasonable manner."

He raised the case of Matthew Briggs, whose wife died from head injuries following a collision with a cyclist in London in 2016.

Sir Iain told MPs that Mr Briggs' attempt to get a cyclist prosecuted "involved a legal process that was so convoluted and difficult" even the presiding judge raised concerns and said the laws "needed to be addressed".

His proposed amendment creates an offence of causing death or serious injury by dangerous, careless or inconsiderate cycling.

He said it would "achieve equal accountability" adding: "Just as drivers are held accountable for dangerous driving that results in death, cyclists I think should face similar consequences for reckless behaviour that leads to fatalities."

Backing the change, Transport Secretary Mark Harper said: "Most cyclists, like most drivers, are responsible and considerate.

"But it's only right that the tiny minority who recklessly disregard others face the full weight of the law for doing so."

Speaking to the BBC earlier this week, Duncan Dollimore from Cycling UK said he had "massive compassion" for people who had lost family members in collisions but that he did not believe there was a "huge gap" in the law.

He said incidents were rare but that cyclists who had caused deaths had been charged, convicted and sent to prison under existing legislation.

Chris Boardman, the cycling and walking commissioner for Active Travel England, told BBC Radio 5 Live there was a greater need to focus on deaths and injuries caused by motor vehicle collisions.

The former Olympic cyclist said: "Everyone should obey the law of the road but there are more people that will be killed by cows and lightning than by cyclists... That's the context and perspective I'd like to put back into this conversation."

Full article - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69016715

 

[The Baron]

It's a start they need to make them take out insurance too

 

[old dog new tricks]

Going off tangent slightly but recently I have witnessed some shocking behaviour from cyclists enacting the 1.5m rule for passing.

To avoid any issues will not say where and when but witnessed a cyclist riding at close to the centre line as possible very dangerous, at the next junction the car in front asked what the cyclist was doing the reply shocked me basically the cyclist was rude and aggressive stating they had a camera for evidence and if you attempt to pass on this road you will breach the 1.5m rule and you will be reported. The car driver asked well can you please move closer to the kerb so we can safely pass please? Cyclist snapped back f off my space you can wait or face jail.

 

[MashBag]

It's a start they need to make them take out insurance too

We will see that. The insurance companies won't miss that opportunity once the law is made.

Prolly number plates too... Else the last might be hard to enforce?

 

[dad_of_jon]

As a cyclist I don't have issues with this law. behave like a turnip - face the consequences. As I have an ebike with a speedo I find the shared paths rarely wide or safe enough to do over 15 mph. If I want to go faster on any sort of bike it's on the road for me.** Now if there can only be something done about loose uncontrolled dogs on shared paths we'll all be in a better place.

** - bit of an issue with the gearing on my bikes because at above 20 mph it does FEEL like i'm cycling furiously.

 

[dad_of_jon]

We will see that. The insurance companies won't miss that opportunity once the law is made.

Prolly number plates too... Else the last might be hard to enforce?

Clearly I'm not a fan of that. I have home insurance that covers for personal liability. its already damn hard to fit a decent set of mudguards to my bike.

That will drive people towards e-scooters. (good thing or not? - you decide) I have to be honest from a safety point of view an impact at the same speed could be less harmful than a bike. the impact point and mass would most likely be lower down and the rider can step off the scooter

 

[The Baron]

Going off tangent slightly but recently I have witnessed some shocking behaviour from cyclists enacting the 1.5m rule for passing.

To avoid any issues will not say where and when but witnessed a cyclist riding at close to the centre line as possible very dangerous, at the next junction the car in front asked what the cyclist was doing the reply shocked me basically the cyclist was rude and aggressive stating they had a camera for evidence and if you attempt to pass on this road you will breach the 1.5m rule and you will be reported. The car driver asked well can you please move closer to the kerb so we can safely pass please? Cyclist snapped back f off my space you can wait or face jail.

Maybe the answer to that is for motorists to send their camera footage into the police of them deliberately riding near the white line just as the vigilante cyclists do when you pass nearer than 4 foot.
I would think it would come under undue care and attention and consideration to other road users

 

[hoppyscotty]

It's a start they need to make them take out insurance too

When it comes to the classic lycra clad keen cyclist then the chances are they are already insured. Either by personal insurance or via membership to organisations like British Cycling or via the training app Strava, which the vast majority of keen cyclists will use. But just as with cars, the requirement for insurance doesnt prevent people driving without it, or crashing with it. Its not a solution to the problem.

Surprised the law is actually required. If you're riding your bike in a dangerous manner and cause death or injury as a result then how is that different if its via any other means by which you can cause death or injury to any other person? I suspect it's an unnecessary law just being raised for political ends to appease a certain portion of society. About the only things politicians can actually do these days. A nice distraction tactic from all the other things going on every day on our streets that the politicians seem to be conveniently ignoring because it's politically inconvenient for them, or just difficult issues to tackle...far easier to distract people by whipping up a bit of a storm against cyclists?

About 1% of pedestrian deaths are from collisions with cyclists...and some of those will be the pedestrians fault, so quite why such urgent legislation is required when on average more cyclists are killed on British roads by drivers every week, than cyclists kill pedestrians every year. But ultimately whichever way you cut it British roads are incredibly safe for all users and why such a fuss is made about road safety each year is telling. Just to put it into context on average there are twice as many deaths each year from choking than deaths on British roads. maybe a campaign to teach people how to eat properly would save more lives that continually demonising drivers and cyclists, and whipping up animosity between those two groups.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Maybe the answer to that is for motorists to send their camera footage into the police of them deliberately riding near the white line just as the vigilante cyclists do when you pass nearer than 4 foot.
I would think it would come under undue care and attention and consideration to other road users

Just as long as the police equally ignore the complaints and camera footage submitted from drivers showing cyclists behaving badly as much as they ignore reports and camera footage submitted from cyclists showing drivers behaving badly.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Just as long as the police equally ignore the complaints and camera footage submitted from drivers showing cyclists behaving badly as much as they ignore reports and camera footage submitted from cyclists showing drivers behaving badly.

I suspect not, after all a car on average is upwards of 1000kg. A cyclist + ebike - 125kg , or an e scooter 100kg

you also don't hear of extremists using a bike as a weapon, a car or van yes. so I think that may relate to how serious it is.

I fully concede a lot of minor injuries could add up to equate to one serious injury when doing the where do we put our resources calculation.

 

[The Baron]

Just as long as the police equally ignore the complaints and camera footage submitted from drivers showing cyclists behaving badly as much as they ignore reports and camera footage submitted from cyclists showing drivers behaving badly.

The problem Hoppy is that many motorist are being fined from footage that these vigilante cyclists are submitting.
One has submitted upto 200 of these events a month which sometimes ends in a small amount of fines but are not charged with wasting police resources for the viewing of the other none fineable events.
They are giving reasonable cyclists a bad name dare I name one Jer786 V***

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I meant to add this to the OP so will edit it later.

Can I ask members not to turn the thread into a cyclists vs car drivers argument we have discussed cyclists in the past and most agreed there are bad cyclists and bad car drivers its always the few that spoil it for the majority.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I listened to the phone in on 5 live and they backed up what someone here has already pointed out only a smal amount of deaths on the road are caused by cyclists, they didnt go into detail about injuries.

Insurance sounds like a good idea so anyone hurt could get compensation but who is going to police it, cycles are not registered so if the rider gives the injured party false details they cannot claim this happened to one caller today she had pictures of the guy that hit her and his bike she went to the polce and they told her the do not investigate pedestrians being hit by cycles.

 

[Stu]

As above, it's probably a nonsense law that shouldn't have been needed - common sense should have prevailed.
But when someone kills a 44 year old pedestrian with a death trap of a bike and has absolutely no remorse, 18 months is no consolation to the family but it was the maximum the judge could allow.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian

3 pedestrians die every year in cycle related deaths. As both a driver and an occasional cyclist, I'm surprised that this law doesn't already exist.
In urban city areas, it makes huge sense for people to use bicycles. Anyone who knows Milton Keynes will know it's got the most amazing "red route" system where there are entire cycle roads that run adjacent to the main roads which keeps everyone safe.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I welcome this law not because i am anti cyclist it just seems fair and brings accountability on the part of the rider, Today we had a drive out to Southport with the doggy, i don't know if anyone on here has driven the coast road it is fairly long from end to end has a wide pavement on the seaward side with a wide cycle lane combined with it the other side is some wetlands for the twitchers and a massive car park, on the way out we we hit slow moving traffic turned out to be 2 couples on bikes riding on the road and not the purpose built cycle lane here is an example these couples were ding what this bloke is doing riding in the road you can clearly see the dividing line for people and cyclists, this is the kind of thing that gets up peoples noses

 

[Jim Brewster]

Some cyclists take issue with cars passing, or cars wanting them to move over or passing close and fast etc, yet when I'm a pedestrian either pavement or countryside footpath cyclists rarely slow or give way to pedestrians and do all the same things they complain about. It seems to be against the grain for some cyclists to slow for hazard or even come to a stop if a pedestrian is taking up space on a path for example, they'll just pass by very close

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A perfect example of a cyclist going too fast its a blind bend there could have been a family with a baby in a pushchair, young kids or someone walking a dog hidden round that bend, one of them ring a bell just before the crash but at that speed it was never going to do any good, this is the sort of cyclist that gets all of them a bad reputation.

Video starts just before he rings the bell -

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This is an great cyclist vs pedestrians video it'll be interested to see how members view it.

Who is in the wrong here?

The lights are on green but this guy is going for it on a downhill road should he have slowed down as he had plenty of time to do so?

 

[klaus]

No issue with cyclists who brake the law being called to book, just like car drivers are/should be. I'm both. However, calls for registration schemes, licensing and insurance should be coupled to a ramping up of investment in cycling infrastructure. That would enable more people feeling comfortable to get on their bikes, or take up cycling. Maybe the PM could score some points by taking this up (ok- no election discussion please).

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No issue with cyclists who brake the law being called to book, just like car drivers are/should be.

How do you catch them when they break the law?

You are sat at the lights with your dash cam on and a cyclist goes past you through the red light you have them on camera but its of no use whatsoever as you cannot identify them.

The guy that crashed into the pedestrian i mentioned earlier gave her false details she was injured but got no compensation because even though she had a picture of him the police do not get involved in cycle vs pedestrian crashes.