Crystal malts

[tubby_shaw]

I know that some times I think too much :geek: but,
In all the literature I have read about brewing and discussions I have had with other brewers about crystal malts it seems to be accepted wisdom that these malts add body and residual sweetness due to the sugars created in the grain during production.
But, we mainly seem to add these grains to the mash tun, surely during mashing the sugars that are present within the crystal malts that are attributed with leaving body etc, will be the first to be degraded into simpler sugars by the mash enzymes :hmm:
Am I missing something or would we not be better to add these malts just before the sparge to get the inferred body and sweetness ?
Anybody, any ideas?

 

[Brewmarc]

I think you are right Tubby :thumb: I looked up crystal malt on Wickipedia & it says it is fully converted during the malting prosess, so it just needs to be steeped to release the good stuff, i.e no mashing required to convert the sugars i think that we add to the mash tun purly for covenience. :thumb:

 

[jamesb]

I was always under the impression that it was mainly unfermentable sugars gained from the darker malts.

 

[Brewmarc]

Quote me if im wrong :wha: but i think it is true that darker malts, i.e chocolate black crystal ect, can not produce sugars from mashing i.e enziem activity & have some sugars that are unfermentable (dextrins) which contribute charicteristic sweetness & body apart from flavour, but also contrbute fermentible sugars. To what degree Im not sure for the various malts :wha: . they certainly increase the OG but do they increase the FG :wha:

 

[tubby_shaw]

I was always under the impression that it was mainly unfermentable sugars gained from the darker malts.

It is also my understanding that the sugars produced during the "in husk mashing" are mainly unfermentable as produced. But as these sugars are produced by the same enzymes that we rely upon in the mash tun wont these sugars be made fermentable by further enzyme activity?

 

[Aleman]

The production process for Crystal malt is to put the germinated grain into the kiln and then raise the temp to 65C . . . the starches inside the husk are mashed internally . . . once the correct degree of modification has undergone the temperature is raised to 105C to dry the malt . . . Darker shades are kilned at higher temperatures.

Technically they do not require mashing . . . Indeed you can add them to the mash tun with 15 minutes to go and should extract the sugars sufficiently. . . . In practice it matters little, as it is NOT just the unfermentable sugars that contribute to the body and mouthfeel. The other thing is that the dextrins formed are generally a-limit dextrins that cannot be broken by Alpha or Beta amylase . . . (But amyloglucosidase - Dry Beer Enzyme can) . . . so do not get destroyed during the mash anyway . . .convenient what?

Dark Kilned Pale malts (Chocolate, Roast, Black) contribute very much in the way of fermentable extract, as the starch is carbonised . . . making it very low in extract (Around 10-20% IIRC)

 

[Wez]

Just to add - when I brewed a high gravity IPA I used only Pale Malt, ran that off for the IPA then added 500g Medium Crystal to produce another different beer, it worked really well :thumb:

 

[Brewmarc]

Wez, are you saying you split the brew & added the crystal half way through How did the OG,s turn out for the 2 beers
sounds ingenious :geek: :thumb:

 

[Wez]

From one single mash I was able to get two totally different Beers:

25L of IPA 1.070 120IBU (all pale and all goldings)
40L of Harvest Gold 1.046 35IBU (added crystal after running off the wort for the IPA - Cascades)

This thread goes into much more detail:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1362&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

 

[Brewmarc]

Thats brillient Wez :thumb: looks like you had a busy day I love the "lines" about the hop strainer :lol: i have done that twice now, what a pain in the **** :nono: if I do it once more Im going to give myself 4 sides :nono: :lol: I was interested to read a post from you about Sierra Navada Celebration, did you ever do this brew I did the S N pale ale, Pale & Crystal, I added a bit of malto dextrin with Pearl bitter hops & cascade for flavour & aroma it turned out lovely just like the real thing :drink: if I do it again I will follow the exact recipe except for the yeast which I will try to culture from a bottle or 2 of SNPA,cant remember what yeast I actually used but I think it was Danstar Nottingham :wha:

 

[Wez]

Cheers :

I had a great day really - was good to get 2 beers from the one mash

I've not brewed SN Celeb' yet - hope to soon - I've done an SNPA clone and although not like the original it was a nice beer IMO.