counterflow or immersion chiller

[calumscott]

Do they give the same surface area to coolant volume ratio as a copper tube effort I wonder?

 

[The Goatreich]

The micro I visited on the weekend used a plate one. I'd absolutely love to get my wort down to pitching temperature as quickly as these are suggesting, but I don't fancy making one as I don't think I fully understand what's going on in them.

 

[Springer]

If I did one again, I would use 8mm again. As Calum says there is some resriction but it works ok, 80 litres down in 20 mins or so, maybe 25, I will time it next brew.
The length of coil is 10 metres, it may be harder to get 10 mm down the braided but I recon it would go :hmm: .
I did it for cost, surface area is 8 pi or 10 pi x same length, so 25% more area :hmm: What was the cost difference
8mm works well for me, either would be fine. Which ever you use it needs a box to my mind, without it flops everywhere with pipes dangling about. :evil:
The time difference is neither here nor there for me as i'm busy cleaning down and tidying up.
Like others have mentioned, I feed the hot water into the mash tun and use it for cleaning and mopping.
S

 

[TRXnMe]

The micro I visited on the weekend used a plate one. I'd absolutely love to get my wort down to pitching temperature as quickly as these are suggesting, but I don't fancy making one as I don't think I fully understand what's going on in them.

I'm away until Sunday afternoon, but if you like I can drop round and draw you a few pics to explain how heat exchangers work.

If you are really keen I'll dig out the thermodynamics notes and try and explain the math behind them as well.

The simplest explanation is that the hot wort enters at one end of a pipe.
The pipe is inside a 'jacket' formed by a larger pipe
Hot wort then goes in one end of the pipe
Cold water goes in the other end of the pipe
As the wort cools the water warms up, but the warm water is now on the outside of hotter wort, so the heat energy can still move from wort to water as easily.

The problem I've not worked out yet (need a better look at a built one) is how the ends are formed with any leaks, as theoretically they pass through each other.

I know how I'd do it from steel tube, but not from a hosepipe which seems to be the standard outer jacket.

 

[Springer]

The principal and connections are not rocket science, have a look at my post upstream, "the one I built earlier " a picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

No time for diagram but simply, as the beer exits from the inner tube it is hit by cold water entering the outer tube, which surrounds the inner tube. :?
S

 

[TRXnMe]

I assume you mean this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19477&start=0&hilit=counterflow/url

If so, I assume you've run the 10mm flexible pipe through what looks like a 15mm T piece and used a 10 to 15mm adaptor to 'plug' the end of the cooling jacket?

All joints soldered?

 

[The Goatreich]

Cheers TRX. I understand the idea now in principle, it's more the how could I put that together that I don't really get. I do think I'd be better off buying something as my DIY skills are non-existent.

 

[Springer]

Not quite all soldered connections. Lots of ways of "plugging the end" as you say.
If you look at the second pic, I soldered one end of a turned down 8 mm parallel compression fitting it into the T piece. This lot with the the water connection was then slipped onto the braided water hose and beer pipe and the non soldered end nipped up as a compression joint, (end now plugged), another 8mm parallel compression fitting was then used to add the outlet/inlet. This avoided heat on the braided stuff.
S
Edit pic added.

 

[TRXnMe]

Cheers TRX. I understand the idea now in principle, it's more the how could I put that together that I don't really get. I do think I'd be better off buying something as my DIY skills are non-existent.

Hold off until Christmas mate, I've got a 'normal' wort chiller on my christmas list, if I don't get it I'll be making one, and the counterflow chillers look to be worth an attempt, if only because it uses a lot less water and I'm feeling guilty about the amount I use brewing. At least, if I fail to make a counterflow I'll have an immersion type by default

If I 'crack it' I'm happy to make two for the cost of the second lot of material.

The ones I've seen that use a copper core and a flexible outer seem to be the easiest to make, it's a 'simple' case of finding a flexible pipe that will slip over a 15mm diameter T piece, once that's done then the residual DIY appears to be minimal, I can solder if necessary, but compression fittings might work and they are very simple to use, they also allow the unit to be fully stripped if necessary :)

 

[bobsbeer]

Just resurrecting rather than start a new topic. But I have a few questions. In order to sterilise these prior to the run off people are recirculating the boiling wort. I am assuming this is being done via a pump or just draining into a bucket and pouring back into the boiler? How much wort needs to be run through to ensure it is sterile?

 

[beermaker]

Hi Bob

I recirculate the boiling wort through the CFC with the pump and back to the boiler for 10 mins before cooling and pumping to the FV. To facilitate this, I use reinforced braided hose on the CFC outlet to withstand the heat and pressure when recirculating, and I have a copper 'lance' on the end of this which sits in the boiler and is also sterilised inside and out so I'm happier putting it in my sterilised FV.

Once the boiler's empty and clean, I pump hot clean water through the CFC to flush it out, then pump Antiformin through and let it sit for a bit to get any nasties, before a cold water flush. After that I fill the brewery with sanitiser (usually Brupacks StayClean) to inhibit any growth before the next brew. Everythings designed to be clean-in-place to save having to dismantle anything for cleaning.

 

[evanvine]

It is essential that a CFC is thoroughly cleaned after use, else an unpleasant "tang" will result!
My method is to pump a warm, strong, solution of either bleach or pub line cleaner through it for an hour or so, then flush with clean cold water.
I plug the ends of the 10mm pipe with cotton wool, and then just re-flush with cold water immediately before use.
I would think a plate chiller would need similar treatment.

 

[abeyptfc]

I had always been using the copper immersion chiller but it was taking up to 45 mins to chill the wort with the water running full speed from my outside tap, I decided to get a counterflow chiller and found one cheap on ebay. I set it up the other night and tried it out with boiling water, you can run the wort straight after the boil right into the fermenter and it comes out at 20 degrees, it will save me about an hour during a brewday and I wish I'd bought one sooner.

 

[steve963]

love mine too, cools down to 16 in this weather.

dont bother with chemicals in mine, just flush with cold after and before use, then recirc boiling wort for 10mins near end of boil. Do you think I should use chemicals to clean? as does sit for weeks with water in

 

[evanvine]

Do you think I should use chemicals to clean? as does sit for weeks with water in

In a word, yes!
I could not believe the gunge that came out of mine. :shock:

 

[chastuck]

I had always been using the copper immersion chiller but it was taking up to 45 mins to chill the wort with the water running full speed from my outside tap, I decided to get a counterflow chiller and found one cheap on ebay. I set it up the other night and tried it out with boiling water, you can run the wort straight after the boil right into the fermenter and it comes out at 20 degrees, it will save me about an hour during a brewday and I wish I'd bought one sooner.

I run my tap water through my immersion cooler at a very slow trickle rather than full on. Judging by the temperature at the outflow it seems to take out more heat this way and cools the wort quicker.