counterflow or immersion chiller

[bluebar]

Hi all
What is better counterflow chiller or immersion chiller any advice apreciate

Cheers bluebar :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

For me, and my logic, counterflow.

The CF chiller has wort moving against the coolant so it is being uniformly chilled. The immersion chiller sits there and chills the wort close to it. The heat must then dissipate from the hot wort at the outside through the chilled wort to the coolant to be removed.

I might be hopelessly wrong but that just seems like it would be less efficient. I presume that if you can get the wort moving past an immersion chiller then it would be more efficient...

But like I say, all pure conjecture...

 

[tazuk]

from wot i see so far i think counterflow chiller is quicker unless you use a plate chiller :thumb:

 

[evanvine]

CFC for me as it's so much quicker, 24 ltrs from boil to 24C in 11 mins.
Down side is you get all the cold break in the FV, so need to double drop as soon as the "rocky head" forms.
Rinse immediatly after use as you would a syphom or a hydrometer.

 

[MacKiwi]

I'm interested in this too, as I need to figure out a wort cooling solution.

The counterflow chiller looks reasonably easy to build. Any recommendations for what to use for the external hose? How long does it need to be?

Do you recirculate the wort back into the mash tun until it is all at fermentation temperature, or do you drain straight into the fermentation bucket and adjust the wort flow so that it comes out the correct temperature?

It looks to me like counterflow chillers and plate chillers work on much the same principal. Any pros/cons either way?

 

[calumscott]

The idea of the counterflow is that what comes out of the chiller is at pitching temp.

You adjust the flowrate of both coolant and wort to get it out at just the right temperature.

 

[tazuk]

have a look on you tube loads on there m8 that may help :thumb:

I'm interested in this too, as I need to figure out a wort cooling solution.

The counterflow chiller looks reasonably easy to build. Any recommendations for what to use for the external hose? How long does it need to be?

Do you recirculate the wort back into the mash tun until it is all at fermentation temperature, or do you drain straight into the fermentation bucket and adjust the wort flow so that it comes out the correct temperature?

It looks to me like counterflow chillers and plate chillers work on much the same principal. Any pros/cons either way?

 

[The Goatreich]

CFC for me as it's so much quicker, 24 ltrs from boil to 24C in 11 mins.
Down side is you get all the cold break in the FV, so need to double drop as soon as the "rocky head" forms.

I'm very interested in this now! Running a tap for 30-40 mins to chill my wort down is a real bug bear of mine, 11 minutes is amazing!!

Is there no way to filter out the cold break? I'm still unsure how the plate chillers work, I think if I get time today I'll check out some youtube videos.

 

[calumscott]

I guess the question is around how long (because protein is weird like that) after chilling it takes to coagulate into filterable sized lumps.

If that is happening to a resonable degree on the way through the CFC then dropping onto some kind of filter medium like muslin might work, otherwise you are looking at chill --> collect ---> wait --> filter/rack.

Does anyone know what the timings on coagulation of cold break material is?

 

[Craven Brewer]

I use a CFC as I am on a water meter and find it cools quickly to pitching temperature, due to the increased surface area in contact with the wort. I therefore assume it uses less water.

Cleaning immediaterly after brewing is crucial, no good the day after. I could not find a 10 metre long bottle brushes so I just run a hottish VWP solution through from the HLT followed by clean hot water.

 

[Springer]

Here's one I made earlier

I found that boxing it in and the couplings made it all work for me.
It is permanently piped in to the water supply and using a short hose between water out to beer in or out makes it a treat to flush, after CIP. I use warm Oxy, and a small quantity of videne pumped from the mash tun, flushing as mentioned. I have some coupling caps to keep things out, but always run videne though before use.
S

 

[Vossy1]

IC.....takes a long time uses lots of water, break left in copper
CFC to FV...rapid uses less water, break to fv
CFC recirc to copper, takes a long time, uses lots of water, no benefit.

Fermenting on the break poses no real issues for short term beer, in fact it may be beneficial though you may wish to reconsider if maturing big beers.

With hind sight, having tried all the methods and more I'd be using cfc to fv to save time, if time and water are not an issue IC :thumb:

 

[MacKiwi]

Thanks Springer, I hadn't spotted that (had a look through the how-to subforum and stopped there). Looks to be exactly what I need...

How long is the hose/pipe? Seems to me around 8m-10m is common...

If you were doing it again, would you use 8mm copper again, or go for 10mm? I guess you'd getting better flow through the 10mm, but if 8mm does the job just fine then it's cheaper...

Thanks!

 

[calumscott]

It's one hell of a calculation to work out what's going on but...

The thinner the copper pipe the better the surface area to volume ratio is and also you have a bigger heat sink in that you have a bigger volume of water in the jacket (hose) surounding it.

My hunch is that even at 8mm you are going to be throttling the flow of wort to get it down to pitching temperature - someone using one care to verify that?

 

[MacKiwi]

Ok I'm definitly interested in putting one of these together now...

So 8mm copper tube (10m)
http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/produ ... %2FBARE!!/

And some braided PVC hose (30m, I can use the other 20m in the garden)
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/1_2inch_PV ... mtr-4350-p

Plus a few plumbing fittings and I'm good to go? Sounds too easy Cheaper than an immersion chiller too!

And if my understanding is correct, the only down-side is getting the cold-break in the FV (which you can get around by racking)...

 

[calumscott]

And if my understanding is correct, the only down-side is getting the cold-break in the FV (which you can get around by racking)...

That's my understanding too...

 

[Goldbadger]

Ok I'm definitly interested in putting one of these together now...

So 8mm copper tube (10m)
http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/produ ... %2FBARE!!/

And some braided PVC hose (30m, I can use the other 20m in the garden)
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/1_2inch_PV ... mtr-4350-p

Plus a few plumbing fittings and I'm good to go? Sounds too easy Cheaper than an immersion chiller too!

And if my understanding is correct, the only down-side is getting the cold-break in the FV (which you can get around by racking)...

I used 10mm tube and bought a couple of 15 to 10 mm reducing couplers http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/p...itting Straight Reducing Coupling 15mm X 10mm

I got the hose from Cable Universe http://www.cableuniverse.co.uk/hose-pipe-kit-20-metres.html
I found that you can screw on the hose connecters directly onto the reducing couplings.

ps I also bought my Extension Lead Black 2m 'Hot Condition' Type from Cable universe too http://www.cableuniverse.co.uk/lindy-iec-extension-lead-black-2m-hot-condition-type.html

 

[beermaker]

Counterflow every time - tried both but for the extra expense and time in making a counterflow it is well worth it in terms of efficiency and time saved. Excellent points from Vossy - I tried recircing to the boiler the other day just out of interest and there was no advantage at all. In terms of construction, I used 10mm pipe in 3/4" bore hose and fabricated fittings at each end from 22mm copper pipe for the hose connection, a 22mm to double 15mm tee, 15mm pipe for the coolant connection and 15mm to 10mm reducer bored out to allow the 15mm pipe to pass straight through, which then has a 10mm to 15 mm reducer soldered on to allow a hose connection. Sounds complicated but it's not really, I'll take a pic later and post up. When threading the copper down the hose, put a bit of fairy liquid on and keep it as straight as possible, it really helps. Don't know if there's any major benefit to using 8mm over 10mm at the scale we're brewing at, but my cfc is 10m long (coiled up of course!) and made from 10mm and I don't need to throttle the pump as a rule.

Another good advantage of the CFC is that I run my exhaust coolant up to the HLT so I end up with 5 gallons of hot water for cleaning down the brewery afterwards :thumb:

 

[The Goatreich]

This is a counter flow chiller yes?
http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... ductId=404

 

[LeedsBrewer]

yeah, but that's a plate one. Can someone please explain why some people on here don't like them? :?