Coopers European Lager Review

[mutznutz]

I agree with Ravey, carb drops are a waste of money. Ordinary table sugar is fine, and you can adjust what you add rather than be constained by the size of a drop.
So whats the problem with adding priming sugar? Assuming you have just enough yeast in your bottles or PB carried over from the FV to work on the beer, you have allowed the primary to finish, and you give it enough time in the warm for the beer to carbonate, you can only end up with three outcomes
- not enough carbonation i.e. not enough sugar
- too much carbonation i.e. too much sugar
- just enough carbonation i.e correct amount of sugar added to your brew for the style

Previously I've emptied from my Primary into a secondary using a siphon, to keep the crud in the primary. Then added 4 heaped tablespoons (mixed in a cup of boiling water and left to cool down), slowly stir so I don't oxygenate. And use a bottling tap/siphon to bottle, I know in the past I've used fairy liquid on my bottles (which I now know is a big no no) so going to rinse all bottles 2-3 times and immerse them in a tub of star San,
How do you know yeast levels? Or if you have enough?
Sorry for being a novice I just want to get it right

 

[terrym]

Previously I've emptied from my Primary into a secondary using a siphon, to keep the crud in the primary. Then added 4 heaped tablespoons (mixed in a cup of boiling water and left to cool down), slowly stir so I don't oxygenate. And use a bottling tap/siphon to bottle, I know in the past I've used fairy liquid on my bottles (which I now know is a big no no) so going to rinse all bottles 2-3 times and immerse them in a tub of star San,
How do you know yeast levels? Or if you have enough?
Sorry for being a novice I just want to get it right

One tbs is about 3 tsp, which is approx 14 gm, and so 4 level tbs is about 56g and guesstimating for the heaping effect you get about 75g. If you have a 22 litre brew to 'package' (down from initial 23 litres) I would say that is only barely enough sugar.
Given that you have not actually told us what your problem is, I can only assume from above calc that it is undercarbing. I suggest you weigh out your sugar and use this to estimate what you add to your batch prime.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/
However if you don't have scales go for 5 heaped tbs of sugar.
Detergent should not affect carbing only head retention.
If your beer is not crystal clear when it goes into bottles/PB there will be some yeast in there to carbonate, however, less yeast (clearer beer) just means it takes longer to carb up.

 

[mutznutz]

Sorry, lack of carbonation has been my downfall so far.

Looking at that link I'm gonna up my priming sugar (dextrose) to 144g to achieve 2.5 Co2 volumes (average European Lager)
Thanks terrym

Looks like my local Homebrew shop sold me down the river, he's always been vague about weights/specifics and I want to learn all I can.

At 15c (using the pack yeast) does anyone think I need to drop temp once bottled?

 

[terrym]

Although I am not normally a lager drinker except when on holiday outside the UK I have just put on my second only homebrewed lager, as an experiment, and as something to quaff on hot days at the end of summer. The first, many years ago, was truly awful, so this time I hope things turn out better.
I used
- European Lager Kit Can
- 100g Light Crystal Malt steep (30mins at about 65*C then 10 mins wort boil)
- 500g Light LME
- 500g Dextrose
- plus 10g Saaz hop pellets boiled with the Crystal Malt
Brewed to 21 litres, OG about 1.043
I used the kit yeast, which is a true lager yeast, and pitched at about 23*C then allowed it to cool at 18*-19*C room temperature for about 12 hours.
It's now sitting in the garage at about 15*C air temperature and slowly bubbling away after 24 hours. I have decided to go with 15*C, at least for the first day or two, rather than 13*C since I only used kit yeast which is about 7 g and I am mindful of underpitching.
When the fermentation has nearly finished I will dry hop or add a hop tea using 40g Saaz.
Will come back later with an update, hopefully an optimistic one.:thumb:

 

[MyQul]

Although I am not normally a lager drinker except when on holiday outside the UK I have just put on my second only homebrewed lager, as an experiment, and as something to quaff on hot days at the end of summer. The first, many years ago, was truly awful, so this time I hope things turn out better.
I used
- European Lager Kit Can
- 100g Light Crystal Malt steep (30mins at about 65*C then 10 mins wort boil)
- 500g Light LME
- 500g Dextrose
- plus 10g Saaz hop pellets boiled with the Crystal Malt
Brewed to 21 litres, OG about 1.043
I used the kit yeast, which is a true lager yeast, and pitched at about 23*C then allowed it to cool at 18*-19*C room temperature for about 12 hours.
It's now sitting in the garage at about 15*C air temperature and slowly bubbling away after 24 hours. I have decided to go with 15*C, at least for the first day or two, rather than 13*C since I only used kit yeast which is about 7 g and I am mindful of underpitching.
When the fermentation has nearly finished I will dry hop or add a hop tea using 40g Saaz.
Will come back later with an update, hopefully an optimistic one.:thumb:

Only 7g of yeast? I'd not be surprised if it doesnt stick. You could do with 20g. At 15C you can probably get away with one full 10g/11g pack of yeast (I've fermented notty at 15C using just one pack with no problems before) but two would be better.

Nowadays I always pitch 1C or 2C below my target fermentation temp. Pitching at 23C and it may not be as clean as you would like.

If you plan on doing a lager again try using W-34/70, as there's a brulopher experiment where he ferments half at 19C and half at lager temps (12C iirc) and the testers cant tell the difference. Next winter when my kitchen is cold enough I'm going to have a crack at using some W34/70 fermented at 18c/19c to see if this works

 

[terrym]

@MyQul
Thanks for those comments.
As far as I can tell I have basically followed Coopers advice, which is to pitch between 20-24*C then allow to cool to between 13-15*C. It seems to be chugging way quite happily at present, and looking through the FV wall surprisingly has a thin krausen on top, which I didn't think happened with bottom fermenting yeasts, maybe Coopers commercially confidential lager yeast is different. I am aware of the sticking potential but looking through this thread it hasn't arisen although some folks appear to ferment at upper teens temperatures, perhaps they know something I don't . Time will tell.
PS Just rechecked. The destructions say preferred fermenting temp is at the lower end of the range 21-24*C (so that's 21*C), although the yeast will ferment down to 13*C. Mixed messages I fear. I'll stay with 15*C and hope the 7g kit yeast comes good.

 

[MyQul]

@MyQul
Thanks for those comments.
As far as I can tell I have basically followed Coopers advice, which is to pitch between 20-24*C then allow to cool to between 13-15*C. It seems to be chugging way quite happily at present, and looking through the FV wall surprisingly has a thin krausen on top, which I didn't think happened with bottom fermenting yeasts, maybe Coopers commercially confidential lager yeast is different. I am aware of the sticking potential but looking through this thread it hasn't arisen although some folks appear to ferment at upper teens temperatures, perhaps they know something I don't . Time will tell.
PS Just rechecked. The destructions say preferred fermenting temp is at the lower end of the range 21-24*C (so that's 21*C), although the yeast will ferment down to 13*C. Mixed messages I fear. I'll stay with 15*C and hope the 7g kit yeast comes good.

As long as it doesnt stick, worst case scenario is it wont be as clean tasting as you might want

 

[Pirate_Pete]

I've got one of these on the shelf ready to go when it cools down here.
I was going to go with something like terrym is going with.
But I was going to use a kilo of malt and no dextrose.

But I got some fermentis yeast. I think it's S23. It says on the packet to use
2 x 11.5grams @ 11-15C.

I was going to brew one, then wash the yeast on put another on virtually straight away as the yeast wasn't cheap.

I never read the instructions on the cans. However I thought the yeast that comes with this one is a proper Lager yeast, so should be able to go low temp. But it's the 7grams that worries me for this one.

 

[Sandimas]

Only 7g of yeast? I'd not be surprised if it doesnt stick. You could do with 20g.

I've made Coopers European a number of times with the kit yeast, fermented cool at 12-13C and it's always been great. Chugs along and takes 3 weeks to ferment out, but mine never stuck.

 

[MyQul]

I've made Coopers European a number of times with the kit yeast, fermented cool at 12-13C and it's always been great. Chugs along and takes 3 weeks to ferment out, but mine never stuck.

Thats good to know (for terry's sake) :thumb:

 

[terrym]

As long as it doesnt stick,

Looks like I might have drawn the short straw compared to others
I sealed the FV lid with cling film to get a 99% plus certain indication from the airlock. Held it at about 15*C as best I could without temperature control. Four days at steady airlock activity, which tailed off on day five to zero. Stuck a hydrometer in it which showed it had got to about 1.015. Gave it a gentle stir. Waited a few hours - still nothing. Knowing this kit can get down to well below 1.010 I put it into my water bath at 19*C and the airlock is now chugging away again this morning. :thumb:
If I do a lager again I will definitely use more yeast if it's to ferment at low teens temperatures.

 

[terrym]

Raising the temperature from 15*Cish to 18-19*C has done the trick :thumb:
Air lock activity hardly anything this morning so I opened up the FV to do a dry hop and the SG is now 1.008 (down from last weeks 1.015). It's got another 6 days (4 in the warm) before I rack off and put it in the fridge for a week or two before I bottle so I might squeeze another point or two out of it.

 

[APINTA]

I am about to take the plunge and go for the coopers European Lager kit should I get different yeast to the one supplied . and what about the sugar side of it what should I use with this cooper kit. I want it to taste like larger that the larger kit I made 40 years ago which was 100% ****!:sick:

 

[terrym]

If you follow the kit instructions and brew at ale temperatures (around 20*C) with the kit lager yeast you should be fine.
If you intend to brew at 12-15*C you will need more lager yeast if you want to play safe and not end up with a stuck ferment like I did. You could try the Crossmyloof kolsch yeast, or a lager yeast which others have used on this kit (look back in this thread).

 

[TheQuokka]

The supplied yeast is a lager yeast, though it doesn't perform well under 14C and there is not enough. All lagers should be pitched with preferably a starter, or double the supplied yeast rehydrated and pitched at 18-20, then slowly brought down to 14C. If brewed at 20C you will find the esters a bit high, even for a "European Lager."

 

[sdt7618]

I would set it off st 15 degrees for a few days then take it down to 12 for a couple of weeks, back up to 15 to let the yeast clean up then another week at 12. Have found that lager is tacking a good 3 to 4 weeks. Then 6 weeks layering at as low as you can get it 2 degrees or do then 3-4 weeks to carb up in the warm once bottled. Then leave it to condition ,.. takes a long time to make lager. But am on my second lot bottled and botth are very nice, the coopers was my first one and the one that took the learning curve to get right. But I used the kit yeast and given the higher start temp worked fine.

 

[terrym]

I've opened my second bottle of the Euro lager about six weeks on from when I bottled it. The first one was about three weeks ago and was a decent drink, it was quite malty and the Saaz dry hop came through.
This bottle has been in the fridge more or less all the time since it finished carbonating and so it could be argued it has been lagered to some extent as opposed to simple conditioning.
Anyway its tastes much more like a lager, although I rarely drink lager in the UK but will drink it outside the UK cos often that's all there is, although it's usually much better than the stuff that is dispensed from shiny taps in UK pubs.
It has a darker colour than most UK lagers (probably down to the Crystal Malt) and pours with a fluffy head which subsides quickly but doesn't entirely disappear.
Can't say much more really.
If I was a normal lager drinker I would probably be very pleased, and I suppose I'm pleased too. Would I do it again? Probably (no pun intended) although I would swap out the Coopers yeast for enough proper lager yeast to ferment longer at low temperatures.
The only thing that remains is to leave it for a few more weeks to see if it changes again, since Coopers apparently recommend you keep it 3 months before drinking.

 

[terrym]

Just opened the last bottle of my Euro lager, now over six months since bottling. It's matured into a very refreshing drink, pity it's not summer.
Slightly bitter, now more like a light Pale Ale, and the colour, due to the crystal malt I used gives it a Pale Ale colour.
Would I do it again, yes, got one waiting in my store :thumb:

 

[terrym]

I am now drinking my second Euro lager. I brewed it to more or less the same recipe as my first one in post 224 above except I used 125g Crystal Malt and Motueka hops instead of Saaz. I also fermented at 14*C throughout except for the diacetyl rest having used the kit lager yeast and a kit yeast from a Coopers AuPA which is an ale/lager yeast mix.
Its been in bottle for just over a month with the last two weeks in the fridge, and it's ready to drink.
This one is better than the first one and that's entirely down to the Motueka hops. I shall definitely use these hops again, and recommend them to anyone who wants to try something different to boost this lager kit, instead of the normal Saaz or Hallertau.

 

[Aleik]

Banging this one out, although I lacked instructions, so this thread has come in really useful.

500g light spray malt and 500g brewing sugar. Maybe lacking fermentables there, OG 1038. Supplied yeast has been used, pitched around 18° (I know, possibly too low) and set the stat to 15°, will see what comes of it but resolute in keeping it at this temp if I can, and for a few weeks.

Can I just dry hop this in a few days? What would people recommend if so? It's for my wife mainly, she likes an Estrella/Peroni (I'm under no illusions mine will be anything like these!).

After that it'll be up to 20° for a couple of days, primed with 140g sugar, bottled at around 16° for another 4 weeks then 8 more weeks sat. It'll be bloody Christmas by the time we drink it, properly dragged my heels with it.