Considering an all-in-one system, unable to decide between Brewtools B40Pro and B80Pro

[muppix]

Yeah, I know what that sounds like, but bear with me.

Having made several kit brews now and thoroughly enjoyed myself, it wasn't long before my head would be turned by the likes of a Grainfather all-in-one style solution. I did some research, watched endless videos, and arrived at the conclusion that a Brewtools system would be the best choice for reasons of flexibility, quality, and potential to grow. Looking more closely at this brand with an eye to the future I can also see myself opting for a fancy fermentation vessel at some stage, maybe a dedicated chiller, because I like the prospect of transferring from the brewing system to the FV using a plumbed connection, of having an integrated chiller coil, of being able to ferment under pressure, displace oxygen with CO2, remove muck via a dump valve, etc.

But here's the thing: the minimum capacity of a fancy F100 Unitank is 45 litres, which is more than the maximum capacity of the B40Pro. The B80Pro looks to be more compatible with the F100, but has a minimum pre-boil capacity of 30 litres, and I'm not sure I want to commit to making batches of that size each time. Can I get away with, say, 20 litres in the F100, or a similarly specced high-end FV? Can I temporarily convert the B80Pro to handle smaller volumes? I know it's a crap-ton of money to spend, especially for a beginner, which is why I want to get the right gear first time and not start off by building in some design limitations from day one.

Thanks in advance for any insights and/or experiences on this, much appreciated!

 

[paul3944]

Hi Mate, I’ve got a B80 pro paired with 2x 1/2 BBL Chronicals. My target output is 50 litres which of 40 litres is either for 1x Cask (9 gallon) or split into 2x Corny’s and bottle the rest. It’s a great system but the accessories soon spiral out of control £££. Which if I’m sure I totalled it all up I could of got a 100 litre (3 vessel) system. Oh and the Sparging is a bit hit and miss with the Brewtools.

 

[welly3]

Hi Mate, I’ve got a B80 pro paired with 2x 1/2 BBL Chronicals. My target output is 50 litres which of 40 litres is either for 1x Cask (9 gallon) or split into 2x Corny’s and bottle the rest. It’s a great system but the accessories soon spiral out of control £££. Which if I’m sure I totalled it all up I could of got a 100 litre (3 vessel) system. Oh and the Sparging is a bit hit and miss with the Brewtools.

I had my first brew with my B40 this weekend gone and sparging was definitely the area that let the system down. Everything else was brilliant. Took a little time to get the flow rate and temperature right for mashing but once I had, it was absolutely stable throughout the mash. I’ve bought a rotating sparge arm which I’m going to test out next brew day and I believe that Brewtools has something in the works to improve sparging too. Hopefully won’t have to wait too long. Other than that, really chuffed with my B40. I’m using it as a pilot system for a B150 which is going to be part of a small/nano brewery I’m involved in setting up.

 

[paul3944]

I had my first brew with my B40 this weekend gone and sparging was definitely the area that let the system down. Everything else was brilliant. Took a little time to get the flow rate and temperature right for mashing but once I had, it was absolutely stable throughout the mash. I’ve bought a rotating sparge arm which I’m going to test out next brew day and I believe that Brewtools has something in the works to improve sparging too. Hopefully won’t have to wait too long. Other than that, really chuffed with my B40. I’m using it as a pilot system for a B150 which is going to be part of a small/nano brewery I’m involved in setting up.

Yeah I agree it’s a fantastic system. I just think where a part of the system is known to have niggles, instead of charging the earth for an upgraded part simply supply at cost. The supplied mesh filter is completely useless and you have to purchase the “upgraded” filter which is serious ££ for what it is. Overall a great all in one system.

 

[welly3]

Yeah I agree it’s a fantastic system. I just think where a part of the system is known to have niggles. instead of charging the earth for an upgraded part simply supply at cost. The mesh filter is completely useless and you have to purchase the “upgraded” filter which is serious ££ for what it is. Overall a great all in one system.

The filter I’ve not had too much trouble with, although I did stump up for the new laser cut filter (fancied a bit of bling on my system!) - and I‘ll use the mesh filter for something else I’m sure. One thing I have had trouble with is when you pull up the grain basket is the sparge hat/pipe often comes off the centre pipe with obvious repercussions. It could be me being a little heavy handed but I’ve only done one brew on it and I guess it’ll be a bit of practice to get it right. I’ll practice without grain in it and make sure I get it right.

The B150 system we’re getting set up, we’ll use a winch system for so that should be fine.

It does have the odd niggle which for the money you pay you’d hope wouldn’t be there but I suppose it’s still a new system and we’re kind of early adopters. Hopefully our investment into the system will pay off and to be honest, for me it’s just the sparging that has been the weak point, everything else has been brilliant. Hopefully my beer will reflect it!

 

[paul3944]

To the OP. If your going to be doing small batches in the B40/80 I highly recommend the adjustable diptube. This will ensure the elements are in contact with wort during recirculation.

 

[muppix]

Many thanks for the feedback @paul3944 and @welly3 - really appreciate this. Let me hit you with some proper n00b questions now, apologies in advance...

Hi Mate, I’ve got a B80 pro paired with 2x 1/2 BBL Chronicals. My target output is 50 litres which of 40 litres is either for 1x Cask (9 gallon) or split into 2x Corny’s and bottle the rest.

I can't see myself going for that kind of volume as I'm the only beer drinker in the household and will probably be experimenting with different recipes, which in turn means I'll likely stay with bottles rather than going for casks or kegs. With that in mind do you think the B40Pro coupled with a 7 gallon Unitank would be better for me?

I had my first brew with my B40 this weekend gone and sparging was definitely the area that let the system down. Everything else was brilliant.

That's interesting. How would you improve it? I saw mention of a rotating spare arm and a better mesh filter, are those two things something I should add to my initial order along with the main unit, or leave them later and see how I get on? We get shafted pretty royally when it comes to postage here on the Isle of Man, so if there's anything I know I'll need within the first couple of months then I'd prefer to stick it on from the start.

To the OP. If your going to be doing small batches in the B40/80 I highly recommend the adjustable diptube. This will ensure the elements are in contact with wort during recirculation.

Duly noted - cheers mate!

 

[welly3]

I can't see myself going for that kind of volume as I'm the only beer drinker in the household and will probably be experimenting with different recipes, which in turn means I'll likely stay with bottles rather than going for casks or kegs. With that in mind do you think the B40Pro coupled with a 7 gallon Unitank would be better for me?

Probably plenty. I'm not sure what a full batch size of a B40 is if you made a, say, 4.5% pale ale is but I suspect you could keg/bottle maybe 30L from it at a guess. Standard batch size is about 23L. If you're the only one that drinks beer at home then honestly, to me anyway, 23L is loads. If you're drinking more than that yourself on a regular basis, you probably shouldn't! And you can try different styles more regularly.

That's interesting. How would you improve it? I saw mention of a rotating spare arm and a better mesh filter, are those two things something I should add to my initial order along with the main unit, or leave them later and see how I get on? We get shafted pretty royally when it comes to postage here on the Isle of Man, so if there's anything I know I'll need within the first couple of months then I'd prefer to stick it on from the start.

The problem with the sparge hat - and it doesn't affect the mashing so much - is that the recirculated wort doesn't drain through the grain bed so much as either channels through it if you're running the pump at 100% (because it drops from a fairly high point) or just drips down the sparge centre pipe and doesn't really soak the grain bed. The sparge water needs to soak more of the grain than it's capable of doing.

I've just bought one of these - Rotating Sparge Arm Stainless Steel - which I'm going try next brew day. Only thing with it is it won't work with the centre pipe recirculation so my sparge water will have to be gravity fed or I'll get a small pump for it. At 21 quid, I thought it would be worth a punt and I've used a similar sparge arm years and years ago with some success. No reason why this won't work.

Other Brewtools users have reported jerry rigging something like this:

https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/re-circulation-manifold-for-infussion-mash-tuns
and I believe Brewtools are designing something similar to suit the Brewtools rigs.

 

[muppix]

Probably plenty. I'm not sure what a full batch size of a B40 is if you made a, say, 4.5% pale ale is but I suspect you could keg/bottle maybe 30L from it at a guess. Standard batch size is about 23L.

Excellent, thanks. Twenty-ish litres is a good size; not too painful if it goes wrong, lasts a couple of weeks if it doesn't.

The sparge water needs to soak more of the grain than it's capable of doing.

Understood. I'd be interested to hear how you get on with that rotating arm. Out of interest, do you know of another all-in-one system with a better implementation in this regard? So many features of the Brewtools units seem better than those of their competitors I'm a little surprised they dropped the ball when it comes to sparging.

 

[paul3944]

I think myself and @welly3 have covered the slight flaws in the system. But please don’t let this put you off, it’s a great bit of kit that will last forever and is constantly being improved. I think the B40 and 7 gallon Unitank will be perfect for your needs. Just add a Digiboil 35l to your list for sparging and your good to go

 

[welly3]

Excellent, thanks. Twenty-ish litres is a good size; not too painful if it goes wrong, lasts a couple of weeks if it doesn't.



Understood. I'd be interested to hear how you get on with that rotating arm. Out of interest, do you know of another all-in-one system with a better implementation in this regard? So many features of the Brewtools units seem better than those of their competitors I'm a little surprised they dropped the ball when it comes to sparging.

As @paul3944 siad, I wouldn't let that worry you. I don't think any single vessel system has much in the way of sparging. The grainfather just uses an external HLT with a silicone hose going into it. Can't speak for things like the Brewmonk or any of those clones but from what I can tell they don't do anything differently to the grainfather - an external kettle with hot water.

It's both a minor part of the process but kind of important at the same time. There's a youtuber called VoC Brewing who uses a B40 and just uses a watering can for his sparging. I don't doubt Brewtools will eventually get this nailed but at the moment it's not quite right. Wouldn't let it put you off, everything else is bang on. I'll be brewing on Monday with this rotating sparge arm so will update this thread with my thoughts! No reason why it wouldn't work though, it's what many brewers on 3 vessel systems use.

 

[muppix]

Perfect - thanks both @paul3944 and @welly3, owe ya one.
Until I think of more daft questions: have a great Christmas!!