Confused over hops...

[commsbiff]

Planning on doing an extract brew (ish) for the group brew. I have my tin of pale malt extract, 1kg spraymalt light, yeast (Saf04, might need to find a Nottingham though now due to the rules). I didn't know what hops to get so I got fuggles (5.0% aa), saaz (3.0% aa) and styrian goldings (??% aa) - still not sure what I'll use and happy to take any advice.

Now, I'm aiming to ferment a 23L batch at 40 IBU. As I only have a 5L pot, I was going to boil the wort and hops in that and then top upwith cold water in the fv. I've seen the recipes link, and the IBU calculator but I'm still a bit confused. I'm not sure what utilisation I should use. If I boiled 30g of fuggles and 30g of saaz for 90 mins, and 25g of styrian for 15 mins - could I expect something around 40 IBU? Also, would my brew method be ok? Thanks for your input.

edit: err, sorry - I seem to have figured out the recipe calc (awesome btw)... But guess what... 40.4 IBU, now that's luck!

 

[tubby_shaw]

Trying to brew 23L with only a 5 litre vessel available for boiling is going to be a little tricky as hop utilisation drops dramatically with concentrated worts
I would be tempted to brew a few 5L batches and use the recipe tool to calculate your bitterness with various hops :thumb:
That way you can find out what combination of hops you prefer :grin:
Also each 5 L batch will produce 10, 500ml bottles and you will only have to send out a couple of bottles of your choice

 

[commsbiff]

hmm.. :hmm: thanks

 

[prolix]

just use 5L of your wort 1045-1050 and add all the fuggles and saaz to that and boil for 90mins you will need to keep it topped up with water so the gravity does not change. at the end strain the pan.

flavour addition boil another pan (Or same pan afterwards) for 15mins with styians hops.

Might not be the most accurate but definately the least hassle with out a big pot.

re the IBU's you are in the ball park.

 

[commsbiff]

Thanks for the kind advice guys. My biggest problem is that I have a 25L fv bin - not normally a problem, except that I want to use it all, because I hate the thought that I could have made more beer and didn't! :drink:

My solution will be to borrow a large stock pot from my work 'canteen', and do it all in a one-er. Thanks again :

 

[tubby_shaw]

If you boil your full volume with the hop schedule you propose you will end up with around 26 IBU.
To get 40 IBU using equal amounts of Fuggles and Saaz would need 47g of each (lets round up to 50g for convenience) leaving your Styrians for aroma :thumb:

 

[commsbiff]

Hmm.. I guess I'm using the recipe calculator incorrectly then. If I go to 'add new recipe', then straight down to 'add bittering hop' and enter fuggles, 50g, 5.0%aa, 90min boil - then click 'add bittering hop', it comes up with 42 IBU straight away. That's even before adding my 3.0%aa saaz. What am I doing wrong?

 

[tubby_shaw]

It's because you are adding them to plain water :wha:
Remember my post above when I say that the utilisation is reduced in concentrated worts, if you add 4500g of pale malt or the equivalent of malt extract to give an SG of 1.045 the IBU comes down to 26 :thumb:

 

[commsbiff]

OIC thanks - what's the downside of adding the lme and dme after the boil? (I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing)

 

[tubby_shaw]

OIC thanks - what's the downside of adding the lme and dme after the boil? (I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing)

Sanitation primarily and the melding of the flavours :thumb:
Also malts extracts have not necessarily had a full boil and there can still be haze forming proteins etc that are coagulated in the boil

 

[Aleman]

what's the downside of adding the lme and dme after the boil? (I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing)

You don't get effective isomerisation of the bittering compounds in the hops which really need to be boiled in an acid environment for it to happen . . .Wort is ideal.

 

[prolix]

hop calculations are a nightmare at the best of times I tried it twice now and I get just under 40 ibu 39 or 37, but 37 is with slightly lower ute

fuggles 5% 30g for 90min
saaz 3% 30g for 90 min
styrian ~4% for 15 min

when boiled in 23l of 1050 wort

I get 168 ibu in 5l of 1050 wort which would give 36 IBU when diluted in rest of wort so maybe up the fuggles and saaz by 5g to hit 40, might have to do 2 5L batches as 170 ibu's is massive and utilisation might do strange things up there whereas 85 is a standard APA :lol:

you would need to make the wort up to 23L first then take 5l to boil the hops in and not use concentrated wort as TS said it would knock the hell out of the IBU's

I may have missed something fundimental here so let me know if I have.

 

[commsbiff]

Lots of great advice there chaps :thumb: I'm trying to get the old grey matter to soak it up like a sponge (without dribbling too much :) )

 

[prolix]

well TS was right went back to basics and stopped using hop calcs that fudged gravity and read Glenn Tinseths work

1050 has 25% utilization at 90mins
and 10% utilization at 15 mins

so your hops do come out at 30 ibus you will need 40g each of the copper hops to get 40 @ 1050