Conditioning with DME

[drf]

I'm putting my second every brew on this weekend. It's a London Porter kit. I have some dark malt extract, which I was intending to use for something in the future but I'm wondering whether to use that for the priming sugar rather than table sugar. Is this likely to be over malty, or to be preferred to table sugar? Also I seem to recall that DME has fewer fermentable sugars, so is it worth upping the amount of sugar used (I seem to remember a ratio of 1:1.2 being mentioned).

Also, for batch priming what's the recommended amount of sugar? 1/2 teaspoon per bottle, approx 40 bottles I suppose = 20 teaspoons = approx 80g? (or 96 if using DME)

TIA

Chris

 

[phettebs]

I batch prime my beers (when I bottle) in my bottling bucket rather than individually in each bottle. Much quicker. I also use this site to help me figure out how much sugar, DME, etc. to add:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/s ... lator.html

You can choose DME under the priming ingredient dropdown. I've used DME and yes, I had to use more than I did with sugar and it also took a little longer to carbonate properly. Other than that, no issues with it.

Baz

 

[drf]

I batch prime my beers (when I bottle) in my bottling bucket rather than individually in each bottle. Much quicker. I also use this site to help me figure out how much sugar, DME, etc. to add:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/s ... lator.html

You can choose DME under the priming ingredient dropdown. I've used DME and yes, I had to use more than I did with sugar and it also took a little longer to carbonate properly. Other than that, no issues with it.

Baz

I intend to batch prime, the kit instructions use 1/2 teaspoon per bottle, working out at approx 80g for 20l. Cheers for the website link, I must admit to being a bit surprised by the increase in sugar mass required if using DME that it suggests. With parameters for cane sugar that result in requiring ~1/2 teaspoon per bottle that works out as 79.8g per 20 L. Using 75% apparent attenuation DME it gives 141g for 20 L, which is much more than the 96g you'd get by multiplying by a factor of 1.2 as I'm sure I've seen somewhere. I'd rather under-carbonate than over- for beer style and bottle safety factors, but I don't want to end up with something too flat!

Maybe I'll do 100g and see what happens, or maybe I'll stick to cane sugar for this batch. When you've batched primed with DME, have you used this calculator with success?

Cheers

Chris

 

[phettebs]

That does seem like a big increase. That's the only calculator I've ever used. However, I was not happy with the DME priming and have only ever used sugar since then. The biggest issue was that it took way longer for the beers to carb than it did with just sugar. To me, it was a waste of DME that could be used to make a starter.

I started with corn sugar and that worked well but was more expensive than just using white table sugar. So when I bottle now, it's just plain white table sugar for me!

 

[richc]

I reckon your maths is wrong, you need 75% of the DME to be about 75g (close enough to 79g) therefore the total amount of DME should be around 100g.

 

[drf]

I'll just go with cane sugar I think, easier all round! Not to just decide whether to just pitch the Safale-04 direct (like I did on my first brew), or rehydrate first. Think I'll pitch it direct as I won't actually be able to maintain stirring for rehydration first, as the instructions suggest.

Cheers!

 

[phettebs]

I've done both dry and hydrated. I've had better success hydrated because I get a more even distribution.

 

[drf]

I've done both dry and hydrated. I've had better success hydrated because I get a more even distribution.

Have you got a stirrer, or do you just swirl it around in something/keep mixing it with something?

Cheers

 

[pjbiker]

I can't see what's wrong with using glucose to prime with. It dissolves easily, is cheaper and ferments completely and quickly. I don't use anything else, and yes, much easier to batch prime. Run FV in to a spare fermenter using a long tube to reduce oxidation and add priming sugar and finings mix.

 

[phettebs]

Have you got a stirrer, or do you just swirl it around in something/keep mixing it with something?
Cheers

Are we talking about rehydrating to reyeast at bottling or rehydrating to pitch into wort for fermentation? Either way, when you use dry yeast I rehydrate with some warm water (about a cup) and let it sit for 15 minutes. Then, after 15 minutes, I stir it up with a sanitize spoon. Then I dump it into the FV or bottling bucket depending on what I'm doing. That's all the stirring I do.

I do stir up the bottling bucket carefully but that's it.

 

[drf]

Are we talking about rehydrating to reyeast at bottling or rehydrating to pitch into wort for fermentation? Either way, when you use dry yeast I rehydrate with some warm water (about a cup) and let it sit for 15 minutes. Then, after 15 minutes, I stir it up with a sanitize spoon. Then I dump it into the FV or bottling bucket depending on what I'm doing. That's all the stirring I do.

I do stir up the bottling bucket carefully but that's it.

I'm talking about rehydrating prior to pitching into wort for fermentation - sorry a bit of thread drift. The Safale-04 instructions recommend rehydating in 10 volumes of water or wort until rehydrated (15-30mins) and then maintain stirring for another 30mins. Alternatively pitch direct into wort, leave for 30min for rehydration and then mix. Maybe I will try rehydrating prior to pitching this time.

As for stirring the bottling bucket (carefully!) - is that to ensure reasonable mixing of the priming sugar? I'm leery of oxygenating the beer! I'd have the priming sugar in solution in the bottom of the bucket and then siphon into that, hoping that the gentle swirling that should happen with the siphoning will mix things enough.

Cheers

 

[luckyeddie]

As for stirring the bottling bucket (carefully!) - is that to ensure reasonable mixing of the priming sugar? I'm leery of oxygenating the beer! I'd have the priming sugar in solution in the bottom of the bucket and then siphon into that, hoping that the gentle swirling that should happen with the siphoning will mix things enough.

Cheers

That's how I do it. Ensure that your syphon tube is long enough to reach the bottom of your bottling vessel, then you will get a gentle mixing without (much) further aeration.

 

[phettebs]

I can honestly say I have never stirred hydrated yeast for 30 minutes. Now THAT sounds like an embuggerance (to steal a term from another thread) that I would not want to take on.

As far as bottling, I do it the same way as you luckyeddie. I add my boiled priming solution to the bottom of the bucket and then start the siphon. It mixes up nicely and cools the very hot sugar solution. When I'm about 2 gallons in and the wort has cooled the sugar water, I add my yeast. I still stir it up gently after transferring just to make sure there is no stratification.

 

[drf]

As far as bottling, I do it the same way as you luckyeddie. I add my boiled priming solution to the bottom of the bucket and then start the siphon. It mixes up nicely and cools the very hot sugar solution. When I'm about 2 gallons in and the wort has cooled the sugar water, I add my yeast. I still stir it up gently after transferring just to make sure there is no stratification.

So you add some yeast specifically for bottling? Last time, and I would intend to do the same this time, I just transferred the fermented product into a bottling bucket and trusted to yeast still in suspension to deal with the conditioning. To be honest, the beer looked pretty clear at bottling (fermented for 14 days, Safale-04, so a good sedimenter) but there was enough yeast trannsferred to impart condition.

 

[phettebs]

I only re-yeast when the beer has been in secondary for months or if it was a really high gravity (~1.070+) and the yeast is just tired. I consider it insurance. Nothing worse than aging a RIS for a year and then opening a flat beer! :x

For my lower gravity beers, I just keg them now. If I were to bottle one, I would not add new yeast.

 

[luckyeddie]

As far as bottling, I do it the same way as you luckyeddie. I add my boiled priming solution to the bottom of the bucket and then start the siphon. It mixes up nicely and cools the very hot sugar solution. When I'm about 2 gallons in and the wort has cooled the sugar water, I add my yeast. I still stir it up gently after transferring just to make sure there is no stratification.

So you add some yeast specifically for bottling? Last time, and I would intend to do the same this time, I just transferred the fermented product into a bottling bucket and trusted to yeast still in suspension to deal with the conditioning. To be honest, the beer looked pretty clear at bottling (fermented for 14 days, Safale-04, so a good sedimenter) but there was enough yeast trannsferred to impart condition.

I have re-yeasted when bottling Jean-Claude van Damme beers (big, strong Belgians), and I also plan to re-yeast my lager which is currently in the fridge at 2C. I've never done it with other beers - just ones where I have given them a loooooong time in secondary.