Commercial Swing-tops vs Homebrew seller Supplied

[achaddy]

Maybe a bit of a misleading title but I have a mixture of Swing-tops that I have either purchased empty from one of the online homebrew suppliers or originally came filled with German Beer, namely Hacker-Pschorr.
I have noticed quite distinctly a difference between the carbonation experienced between the two when racking from the same brew. I transfer to a bottling vessel and prime the whole batch so there should be an even priming across the batch.
However, I see a big difference when opening.
The Commercial ones I would almost say appear over carbonated. Opening with a BIG pop. (Even had the cage fly off) They don't gush straight out but I have to pour into a litre jug for a 500ml bottle first as the head is soo big. A good head is maintained but it does die down enough so I can decant into the drinking glass.
Whereas, the bottles I bought empty, open with more of a gentle phop. I can pour directly into the glass without the huge head. It does still hold a reasonable head to the bottom though. Ther beer still seem good.
These have so far been from Kits, namely St Peters Brewery but I found the same experience accross the Goldon Ale, Ruby Red and IPA.
The only difference I can think of is the stiffness of the lid cage. The Hacker ones are quite industrial where the other ones appear to be slightly lower gauge wire, although still quite thick. But I am wondering if when carbonating the homebrew supplied ones are allowing some of the gas to escape.

Is this something others have observed?

 

[Larse]

Or it could be just differences in the levels of carbonation. In homebrew you're relying on the sugar added plus whatever residual yeast is there to provide the carbonation, whereas the commercial breweries are just carbonating directly.

 

[Rwilts]

Funny you should post this, I had exactly same thought on weekend . I opened a grolsch bottle and it went everywhere, and it occurred to me that my glass bottles always seems to be over carbonated compared to plastic bottles of the same batch.

 

[Slid]

With the Coopers PET bottles there must be some pressure released, as the screw tops must have some gas leakage and the PRT itself may not be completely impervious.

 

[Rwilts]

With the Coopers PET bottles there must be some pressure released, as the screw tops must have some gas leakage and the PRT itself may not be completely impervious.

Makes perfect sense , the PET bottles still seem 'sealed' and firm so we must be talking minute amounts

 

[achaddy]

Or it could be just differences in the levels of carbonation. In homebrew you're relying on the sugar added plus whatever residual yeast is there to provide the carbonation, whereas the commercial breweries are just carbonating directly.

Feel you,ve miss understood what I was saying. I am not comparing commercial beer carbonation to homebrew. I am recycling the commercial glass bottles to use with my homebrew and there is a noticable difference in carbonation between thew two types of bottle with the same batch of homebrew.

 

[Dark Arts]

Is it possible theres more head space(oxygen) when filling the commercial bottles vs homebrew supplied 1s? Remember watching something and the guy made a comment about having fizzer beer with more head space he left in bottles?

 

[MashBag]

I really don't think it's the the bottlrs. They either seal or not.

 

[Darren Jeory]

Maybe a bit of a misleading title but I have a mixture of Swing-tops that I have either purchased empty from one of the online homebrew suppliers or originally came filled with German Beer, namely Hacker-Pschorr.
I have noticed quite distinctly a difference between the carbonation experienced between the two when racking from the same brew. I transfer to a bottling vessel and prime the whole batch so there should be an even priming across the batch.
However, I see a big difference when opening.
The Commercial ones I would almost say appear over carbonated. Opening with a BIG pop. (Even had the cage fly off) They don't gush straight out but I have to pour into a litre jug for a 500ml bottle first as the head is soo big. A good head is maintained but it does die down enough so I can decant into the drinking glass.
Whereas, the bottles I bought empty, open with more of a gentle phop. I can pour directly into the glass without the huge head. It does still hold a reasonable head to the bottom though. Ther beer still seem good.
These have so far been from Kits, namely St Peters Brewery but I found the same experience accross the Goldon Ale, Ruby Red and IPA.
The only difference I can think of is the stiffness of the lid cage. The Hacker ones are quite industrial where the other ones appear to be slightly lower gauge wire, although still quite thick. But I am wondering if when carbonating the homebrew supplied ones are allowing some of the gas to escape.

Is this something others have observed?

I have the same set up. I have some grolsh, hacked pschorr (what a brewer) and bit burger ones but also a case of purchased ones. I've not noticed anything but I will be bottling next week so I'll keep that in mind

 

[peterpiper]

I really don't think it's the the bottlrs. They either seal or not.

Disagree.

I've had quite a few swingtops (from 'The Range' and 'Dunelm'), with very weak mechanisms, that could hold only very little, probably zero, pressure. These are fine for wine and liquors.

Hacker-Pschorr; Aldi 3 grain; Lidl lemonade; and Grolsch swingtops, have all given me good carbonation. With a good 'pop', and bubbles in glass from any nucleation sites. But never the occasional gusher, like from capped bottles.
So guess swingtops are designed to release excess pressure. Though I once had a Grolsch, containing Combutcha, explode.

Buying good empty swingtops, seems very poor value. Compared to buying those good, & full, bottles mentioned.
Aldi's and Lidl's have limited 'seasonal' availability.

 

[achaddy]

Yes, I had a good look at the difference in the stoppers today and that is where I feel the issue lies. The Hacker-Pschorr stopper appears to have the rubber seal molded onto the "ceramic" stopper. and the shape is flater around the seal. I am not sure the seals on these can be replaced. The homebrew ones have a much steeper profile and the rubber seal feels looser where gas could possibly escape from both sides of the seal. It doesn't feel as tight when closed.
I also have Grolsh bottles which I have recently replaced the rubber seal on. These too give good carbonation.
I have never as of yet used crown caps but will be doing so shortly on my next bottling.
I agree with peterpiper over the value for money comment. Much better to buy some quality beer in good bottles, enjoy the beer, then enjoy refilling them.

 

[Larse]

I've always preferred crown caps. The swing tops just seem like a lot of faff masquerading as a time saver. In reality, they're that bit harder to clean and maintain when a crown cork is just simple to use and last years. I found 27 year old home brew crown cap bottles in my shed and two (of four) of them were still good.

 

[MashBag]

I preferred crown caps. I am quickly falling on love with cornies, but that another thread.

@peterpiper
I get your shout about weak mechanisms. They could effectively be acting like a PRV.

They might be manufactured like that to prevent bottle bombs... Or most likely manufactured cheaply and are just cr@p

Be worth testing with a balloon.

 

[klaus]

Bottle primer. Can't say I ever noticed a difference.
I only ever bought one case of swing-tops, years ago from B&M, never had any issue from them, they were labeled as beer bottles. I have lots of brewery filled bottles, most bought in Germany. Again no issues ever. I do change the seals where I can once the old seal looks worn.
I always look at swing tops in the shops but most are more for decoration than anything else, too light weight.

NB. We need to remember that most breweries force carbonate - this may explain the differences?