Cold steeping for low alcohol beer

[chrisb8]

I am planning on having a go at making a low alcohol brew from the second runnings of another mash, so 2 brews for the price of one. I was planning on cold steeping some speciality grains to add to this to give more colour and flavour. However I don't want to add any more fermentables.

This is where I am confused and I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to whether cold steeping these grains will add flavour and colour but not extract any fermentable sugars? It's an experiment at the end of the day but I'd like to hear if anyone has any experience of doing this.

 

[Drunkula]

Some speciality grains like crystal will add a bit of sugar even though they've got no diastatic power. This is because the sugars have already been made, though some will be unfermentable.

But really the amount of sugar you'll get out without mashing with a diastatic grain is next to nothing even if you did it warm. A whole kilo of crystal 60 would make a 20 litre beer with a starting gravity of 1.002 and make a 0.2% beer. Roasted grains will add bugger all.

 

[Dexter101]

Hopefully someone who actually knows something will help, but if we mash at certain temperatures to activate enzymes in order to extract maximum efficiency from the grains (ie sugars) then surely cold steeping wont extract those sugars as the enzymes won't be active?

 

[chrisb8]

Hopefully someone who actually knows something will help, but if we mash at certain temperatures to activate enzymes in order to extract maximum efficiency from the grains (ie sugars) then surely cold steeping wont extract those sugars as the enzymes won't be active?

That was my original thinking...

 

[chrisb8]

Some speciality grains like crystal will add a bit of sugar even though they've got no diastatic power. This is because the sugars have already been made, though some will be unfermentable.

But really the amount of sugar you'll get out without mashing with a diastatic grain is next to nothing even if you did it warm. A whole kilo of crystal 60 would make a 20 litre beer with a starting gravity of 1.002 and make a 0.2% beer. Roasted grains will add bugger all.

Thank you, very helpful explanation

 

[Dexter101]

I was listening to something the other day that suggested that mashing at a higher temperature extracts more long chain sugars which don't then get converted which could be a way of lowering alcohol in beer but whilst also providing more body. No idea on how you include this in your recipe but might be something else to look at

 

[peebee]

… This is where I am confused and I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to whether cold steeping these grains will add flavour and colour but not extract any fermentable sugars? It's an experiment at the end of the day but I'd like to hear if anyone has any experience of doing this.

There are answers, but some do take a bit of digging out. There are even techniques to "cold mash".

So: Cold steeping (mashing, extraction, whatever you like) will add flavour and colour, and will (depending on grain) extract a certain amount of fermentable sugars and starch (latter mostly as an emulsion, so starchy cold extracts will need raising to mashing temperatures or you will have cloudy beer). Other things will get extracted cold, like enzymes, including amylases, proteins, dextrin (from crystal malts, caramel malts, and "cara" malts), and so forth.

As already mentioned, much is extracted out of crystal malt, but mostly unfermentable anyway. That's a subject I'm trying to tie down at this moment - seems the sugars (dextrins) in crystal malts is mostly rendered unfermentable and unconvertable (by amylase enzymes) by the processes it undergoes.

Loads more here (and more to come): https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/peebees-brewday-low-alcohol-beer.77965/

 

[johncrobinson]

yup its important to remember not ALL sugars are fermentable
Personally i have a preferance for modest alcohol beers that are simply full of flavour.
My grandfather a gentleman born in Victorian times allways complained modern beer as sold in pubs was tasteless,This was about 50yrs ago.
Thank goodness the art of brewing PROPER beers did not die out alltogether.

 

[chrisb8]

Thank you @peebee, lots of useful information. In fact your brew day thread was partly the inspiration for my experiment with this

 

[peebee]

yup its important to remember not ALL sugars are fermentable …

The article that covers the "subject I'm trying to tie down at this moment" is https://byo.com/mr-wizard/dextrin-malts/. Previously I'd been whinging about the foolishness of mashing "dextrin malts" in the hope someone might correct me. But they didn't (fly-weights!) and I eventually dug this article out. It hints "normal" crystal malt will be unconvertable to fermentable sugars too.

Thank you @peebee, lots of useful information. In fact your brew day thread was partly the inspiration for my experiment with this

Excellent! I'm glad it is of value! Just be cautious of that element burn with cold extractions, it really came as a surprise to me and I was lucky to escape from burnt sugar flavours, and even a destroyed element is a possibility.

 

[chrisb8]

Yes I noted your experience with the element and will be aware. However I am hoping that by using second runnings from a fully converted mash and diluting with solution from cold steeping just a small amount of speciality grains that will help avoid this. I will report back...