Cold Crash in addition to Finings? Anybody?

[muppix]

I'm a bit new to the world of cold-crashing at the end of primary since I've only recently acquired a fridge big enough, and I was very pleased with the results when I tried it for the first time. I'm also new to finings, and was equally pleased when a ⅓ Protafloc tablet cleared up another beer beautifully by the end of primary. But, because of my shiny new fridge, I stuck the fined beer in there on the basis that if there's anything left to drop out, it may as well drop out now rather than in the keg, which will also go into a fridge. It's been in there for 2 days now and it just approaching 4 ℃ and I can't help but think that it's a smidge less clear now than it was when I put it in, purely based on how well I can see my Tilt Pro from outside the Fermzilla. OK, the hydrometer might have moved or it might be the condensation which gathers instantly whenever I open the door.

So, long story short: does anybody also cold-crash before kegging if finings were added during the boil, or do you just go straight to keg when fermentation is finished?

 

[Galena]

I have only ever cold crashed twice, one of those was for a lager so part of the process I guess, but according to a study by Brulosophy, it does not appear worth bothering with perhaps? There will of course be a split opinion on this - BRULOSOPHY

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Unless I’m doing a style that should be hazy I use 1/2 Protofloc last 10 minutes of the boil, chill and leave for at least half an hour to settle before transferring from above the trub into the FV, ferment as normal, drop temperature to 12-15 degrees after fermentation, add Gelatine and cold crash for three days before kegging.
Something else that will probably divide opinions.
https://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/

 

[muppix]

Cheers @Galena - I ready that particular exBeeriment previously and for me this is where it fell over:

I noticed the next day that a noticeable amount of the sanitizer in my airlock had been sucked into the beer, undoubtedly accompanied by an unknown amount of oxygen.

I do accept that it may not make much difference to body and taste, but I do like a clear beer and stand by my original (if somewhat shortsighted) ethos that if you're gonna chill the beer and something's gonna fall out, may as well do it before kegging.

 

[muppix]

I use 1/2 Protofloc last 10 minutes of the boil, chill and leave for at least half an hour to settle before transferring from above the trub into the FV, ferment as normal, drop temperature to 12-15 degrees after fermentation, add Gelatine and cold crash for three days before kegging

Cheers Mark - Protafloc, cold-crash, and gelatine? Must be pretty clear by then!

Interesting that you transfer to FV from above the trub. I don't have that option sadly but I do tend to whirlpool everything into a pile in the centre of the kettle (never managed a 'cone') so at least that helps with the bigger debris at least.

Out of interest, what target temperature / time do you aim for when cold-crashing? Don't know if it's good or not, but I'm going for 2 days at 4 ℃.

 

[Galena]

Cheers @Galena - I ready that particular exBeeriment previously and for me this is where it fell over:



I do accept that it may not make much difference to body and taste, but I do like a clear beer and stand by my original (if somewhat shortsighted) ethos that if you're gonna chill the beer and something's gonna fall out, may as well do it before kegging.

One of the points of the study was that cold crashing makes no difference to clarity either and no difference could be detected visually by a panel of 20+ judges. I think a lot of what you hear about cold crashing is anecdotal and you perhaps only need to cold crash for a problem beer. No idea tbh but I am tempted to do a similar split batch study.

 

[The Baron]

General way for most is 1/2 tablet of protofloc/whirlfloc tablet 10/15 mins before end of boil to help precipitate haze-causing proteins and beta glucans resulting in a clearer finished beer. You can whirlpool by just stirring with a paddle/large spoon to create a whirlpool/vortex then allow to settle then transfer to your FV. After fermentation is done use your preferred fining Gelatine/Kwik Clear then cold crash for 48 hours this should drop most of the old yeast and trub out of suspension.
Do not forget if you have heavy dry hopped it may stay hazy for a little longer but most beers of this type are drunk young so you may find it may clear further over the next week or 2.
Also this process is not fixed you do which parts you want to and whirlpooling is not always possible if you are using a standard copper pipe chiller to chill down but just do whichever parts work for you. I personally do not chill and do the No Chill method so whirlpooling is not a problem for me and it leaves maybe not a cone but the majority of **** is in the middle of the boil kettle

 

[The Baron]

One of the points of the study was that cold crashing makes no difference to clarity either and no difference could be detected visually by a panel of 20+ judges. I think a lot of what you hear about cold crashing is anecdotal and you perhaps only need to cold crash for a problem beer. No idea tbh but I am tempted to do a similar split batch study.

Think you may have opened a can of worms there

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Cheers Mark - Protafloc, cold-crash, and gelatine? Must be pretty clear by then!

Interesting that you transfer to FV from above the trub. I don't have that option sadly but I do tend to whirlpool everything into a pile in the centre of the kettle (never managed a 'cone') so at least that helps with the bigger debris at least.

Out of interest, what target temperature / time do you aim for when cold-crashing? Don't know if it's good or not, but I'm going for 2 days at 4 ℃.

Ha ha. That is the process I use but even that doesn’t guarantee clear beer Every time. It does work most of the time for me though.
I use the Brewzilla but without the false bottom. The trub would just settle on it after chilling and get pulled through into the FV. I leave it all for half an hour or more with the lid on after chilling and decant into the FV via the tap. I used to do this with the Peco too. Most of the trub stays in the bottom of the kettle.
I cold crash at 1 degree for three days then keg. The cold temperature also makes it easier for the kegged beer to absorb CO 2 and carb quicker.

 

[muppix]

One of the points of the study was that cold crashing makes no difference to clarity either and no difference could be detected visually by a panel of 20+ judges. I think a lot of what you hear about cold crashing is anecdotal and you perhaps only need to cold crash for a problem beer. No idea tbh but I am tempted to do a similar split batch study.

That’s fair. I must admit that cold crashing as a concept has a certain whiff about it, a bit like the concept of always racking for secondary, and that some people run with it like a village idiot runs with a balloon on a stick. Speaking purely from personal running-with-sticks experience here of course ...

But an A/B test does appeal to me, and not just because I can use it as justification for buying a second SS Brewtech Mini Bucket.

 

[Galena]

Think you may have opened a can of worms there

 

[Galena]

That’s fair. I must admit that cold crashing as a concept has a certain whiff about it, a bit like the concept of always racking for secondary, and that some people run with it like a village idiot runs with a balloon on a stick. Speaking purely from personal running-with-sticks experience here of course ...

But an A/B test does appeal to me, and not just because I can use it as justification for buying a second SS Brewtech Mini Bucket.

Yes I think I am going to do this, but it may be a while until I can. I think a lot of the time people cold crash and get really clear beer and from then on cold crashing is the way forward when in actual fact the beer would have cleared naturally anyway, but as I say I have no real experience to base this on.

 

[Redwulf]

I cold crash anything pale and hoppy generally and don't bother with anything dark and malty. Its not a strict rule though, but in my head dark and malty beers need more time to develop the flavour.

I add 1/2 a protofloc @ 10 mins in the boil.

After primary fermentation is complete I do the following

1. Remove Airlock and Block up the hole on the fermenter
2. Chill it down for 24 hours
3. Add 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin dissolved in 150 ml boiled water and heated to about 65c in the microwave
4. Leave for 24-48 hours
5. Package

I haven't done a side by side yet, but anecdotally my beer is generally clearer than it was before I started cold crashing and I don't end up with much **** in the bottom of my cornies or bottles.

It is my belief that if I was patient enough to let the beer condition for the correct amount of time in the keg then I would get the same result, but I am usually quite thirsty.

 

[Skello]

I’ve only ever cold crashed to drop out hops from heavily dry hopped beers before bottling so I don’t end up with too much crud in the bottom.

 

[Regfixit]

Just on the point about the sucking the airlock contents into the beer during the cold crash, I saw a good idea somewhere about using a foil balloon of the type you normally put helium in. Fill it with CO2 either from a bottle or by tying it loosely over the top of the airlock during last few days of primary. Then before cold crashing replace airlock in the bung with a bit of pipe fed into the balloon. This avoids oxygen getting in and sucking airlock contents etc.
I haven't tried it yet, but will probably give it a go on my next brew which will be my first all grain.

 

[muppix]

Just on the point about the sucking the airlock contents into the beer during the cold crash, I saw a good idea somewhere about using a foil balloon of the type you normally put helium in.

I'm using something similar during cold-crashing, sampling (via bottom spigot) and bottling, but with a slight adaptation to allow 'topping up' from cylinder if the CO2 gets low:

A few more details here: Trial runs with Bag-Thing | Pain & Patience

 

[UKSkydiver]

https://www.beer-simple.com/brewing/2020/5/20/cold-crashing-is-dumb-but-do-it-anyway

 

[StJayJay]

I’m a bit of a kitchen sinker, kettle finings, cold crash and sometimes gelatin if there is some haze following chilling. I’ve never objectively tested any of that however and a lot of it is probably just habit. Some of it may have affected results, other parts of it may just be akin to sacrificing a giraffe in a volcano to make a dry river flow again (I’ve watched a lot of children’s movies this year, skewed my reference points).

 

[Tommo 2]

In forty years of brewing beer and making wine I have found the best method for clearing both wine and beer is time and patience, I don’t know if some people realise that some chemicals like isinglass ( a chemical used in the brewery business to clear their beer ) is actually from a fishes stomach, ( a fish called a sturgeon actually) yuk no mate not for me

 

[Galena]

In forty years of brewing beer and making wine I have found the best method for clearing both wine and beer is time and patience, I don’t know if some people realise that some chemicals like isinglass ( a chemical used in the brewery business to clear their beer ) is actually from a fishes stomach, ( a fish called a sturgeon actually) yuk no mate not for me

Everyone is in a rush these days, ferment out in 5 days, 3 days cold crash, force carb and drink lol
I have no problem eating a fishes stomach :)