cold crash and chill haze

[Braufather]

i havn't really suffered with chill haze too much and ive never bothered with a cold crash before, as my thinking has been that it sits in a keg at fridge temperatures as soon as its racked and most times clears within a few weeks anyway as it conditions.

still, as my fridge can get to zero anyway i thought why not give it a go, so my latest IPA, after 3 weeks in primary, with a moderate dry hop at ferm tempts for last 3 days was racked, and instead of starting a low slow carb at fridge temps, i purged at set to 0.2C and left it for 10 days.

i pulled a glass this afternoon, all excited expecting to see the clearest beer known to man and i was met with pure haze!

reading up it seems this haze is good if you are going to add geletine, but thats another process.

am i missing something? for me a liitle bit of patience beats a cold crash plus the need for fining if the end result is the same?

(quick note, after 3 weeks in primary most of original yeast and trub has settled out nicely and this is defo chill haze)

 

[Deathstar]

Going to read this thread with intrigue as I too suffer from “chill haze”.
I generally use a couple of clear bottles when bottling so I can see how well they are clearing.
I know I am a sufferer as when they are out if the fridge they are crystal clear. Once chilled, the haze forms.

 

[Braufather]

a good hot break, a good cold break, and a very quick chill should eliminate it, along with protofloc 15 mins from end, but moving to kegs seemed to help me the most generally.

 

[Deathstar]

a good hot break, a good cold break, and a very quick chill should eliminate it, along with protofloc 15 mins from end, but moving to kegs seemed to help me the most generally.

Apologies not hijacking your thread.
I get the above well, I use kettle finings and wort is crystal clear when transferred to the the fermenter.

back to watching mode :)

 

[nixhaz]

Have you poured another yet? Could be that you pulled up the trub in that first glass maybe?

 

[Braufather]

Have you poured another yet? Could be that you pulled up the trub in that first glass maybe?

see my note at bottom of OP, although moving the keg might have shaken some stuff up, but it defo looked like haze

 

[nixhaz]

Oops, soz!
I've had this problem a lot. Time was the only thing that sorted it out, but it took sooooo long.
My solution now is to cold crash for a few days, then gelatin for a few days. Syphon into keg, not getting anywhere near the trub. I use the stuff at the bottom for bottles as there's always a few bottles' worth left over after the 19L corny-full.
Carb up and then once it is up to pressure (like a week or so), do a closed transfer into a clean keg after getting rid of the first half pint or so of murky rubbish. I think it was getting disturbed every time the kegerator door was opened, which was causing the haze. Now it's perfectly clear.
Oh, I also use Crisp's Clear Choice Malt now which is great.

 

[Braufather]

no worries!

the main thing for me is that before I cold crashed(tempsbelow 2C) and just went to fridge temps (4C -6C) it cleared in the keg whilst carbing and conditioning most times, especially with English liquid yeasts but also with American ales yeasts on occasion.

my conclusion (at the moment at least) is that keeping it 3 weeks in primary then straight to keg at fridge temps(but not cold crash) delivers clear beer most times with minimum effort within a further few weeks.

 

[Drunkula]

am i missing something? for me a liitle bit of patience beats a cold crash plus the need for fining if the end result is the same?

I gelatine sometimes. After hearing on the Brulosophy podcast them say so emphatically that gelatine is liquid time and will basically do exactly what 6 weeks of conditioning does in a week I am back on it as soon as the lager I'm doing at the moment is done. There is no way I'm waiting for something if there's a shortcut.

Time is the fire in which we burn.

 

[Dave Parry]

Just to clarify, when people talk about cold break I presume they mean the rapid chill from boil to FV temp. This precipitates proteins out of solution so I can see this might help.

However I use a counterflow chiller rather than an immersion chiller. The latter would leave the precipitate behind, whereas the former let’s the protein through the chiller and it to the FV. How does this help clarify?

 

[Braufather]

B

I gelatine sometimes. After hearing on the Brulosophy podcast them say so emphatically that gelatine is liquid time and will basically do exactly what 6 weeks of conditioning does in a week I am back on it as soon as the lager I'm doing at the moment is done. There is no way I'm waiting for something if there's a shortcut.

Time is the fire in which we burn.

yes the geletine experiment was one of those rare ones where they a process actually makes a difference. I bought some to give it a go.

however, don’t you find your beer tastes better after it conditions for a free weeks to a month at fridge temps anyway? Time is your friend here, no?

 

[Braufather]

Just to clarify, when people talk about cold break I presume they mean the rapid chill from boil to FV temp. This precipitates proteins out of solution so I can see this might help.

However I use a counterflow chiller rather than an immersion chiller. The latter would leave the precipitate behind, whereas the former let’s the protein through the chiller and it to the FV. How does this help clarify?

good question. Hopefully someone will chip in on that.

How do you find your chiller, is it a pain to clean or is it ok? Immersion chillers use far too much water but when looking for alternatives I seem to recall discounting them and sticking with it.

 

[Deathstar]

I use a counterflow chiller nowadays, and it does cool the wort very quickly,
I found with my old immersion chiller there would be hot and cold spots, and you had to keep on stirring or moving the chiller which was counter productive.
Cleaning it is not an issue as I pump cleaning fluid around it during the cleaning cycle then flush it through with clean water.

Cold crash for me is how quickly you can get from boil to say 20c, the faster the better.

 

[BeerCat]

You will probably have to use something like cellerbrite in conjunction with isinglass. I dont have any issue clarifying beer with all the trub in.

 

[Drunkula]

however, don’t you find your beer tastes better after it conditions for a free weeks to a month at fridge temps anyway? Time is your friend here, no?

With something like a standard beer, yes. With wheat beers no.

I'll see how it goes with the pilsner as most of it will be kegged and force carbed but some will go in bottles. It'll be in a freezer I use as a fridge at 0.7c where it'll get gelatined and some of it might get lucky enough to be fully lagered.

 

[Dave Parry]

How do you find your chiller, is it a pain to clean or is it ok? Immersion chillers use far too much water but when looking for alternatives I seem to recall discounting them and sticking with it.

It’s fine to clean. I have a domestic kettle with a 1/2” BSP Tap fitted. I put boiling water through to sterilise before I use it, then I chill the wort, then I connect up the kettle again and put boiled water through it to push the remaining wort through and clean it at the same time.