Cloudy brew help?

[vanderkidd]

I'm looking for help in working out where I've gone wrong with a brew, and if there is anything I can do to fix it.

My recipe is here....
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/638075/american-ipa-columbus-amarillo

This is a reworking of a brew I had done already, save for using Maris Otter instead of Pale Ale malt, and a switch from Apollo to Columbus for the FWH. Whilst it states I used US05, I swapped it for some Mangrove Jacks British Ale yeast I had used on a previous beer.

Here is how the beer looks today

Gravity sits at 1.012, but there is still a residual sweetness. Despite using plenty of hops, the beer isn't really that bitter. Fermentation has been fairly slow, things didn't kick off until about 24 hours after pitching. I also moved the fermenter between a warmer and cooler cupboard to try and keep the ferment around 19-20C. The cooler cupboard seems to have caused it to have a really long drawn out ferment.

Meanwhile, I had also taken some second runnings and produced a 1 gallon beer single hopped with Columbus, OG 1.042 FG 1.010, looks nice and clear and tastes fine. This was fermented with half a packet of US05.

There's two areas where I think I've gone wrong. Firstly I may have underpitched the yeast slurry from the previous brew. Or that moving it between warmer and cooler environments has impacted on its ability to clear. Looking at the yeast again, the previous brew it was used in was a Double Oatmeal Stout, so perhaps the yeast would be stressed being used in a bigger beer so soon?

Lastly, what can I do to sort this beer? I'm thinking of using gelatin to clear, then adding some brett to dry it out and then finally adding the dry hops.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

If this is your finished beer, then there is something definetly (SP) wrong.
First Q.....how long has this beer been conditioning ? bottles or keg?

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Your post is very confusing. Please try to explain your proceedures, before we can tackle your questions?
Why are you taking "second runnings" ???

 

[vanderkidd]

If this is your finished beer, then there is something definetly (SP) wrong.
First Q.....how long has this beer been conditioning ? bottles or keg?

hasn't reached bottle yet, this is coming straight out of the FV still in primary. it was brewed 2 weeks ago today, but has taken this long to reach 1.012. I've never had this issue before!

For comparison the second runnings I've just bottled were clear after 7 days and i've just bottled it this mornings after a 3 day dry hop. Its also tasting pretty great. Hence why I think the issue is yeast or temperature. Second runnings was fresh dry yeast and kept in the same spot the whole time.

 

[vanderkidd]

Your post is very confusing. Please try to explain your proceedures, before we can tackle your questions?
Why are you taking "second runnings" ???

the second runnings were for a totally separate beer, a single hopped columbus.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

There is nothing wrong with your beer, it just hasn't conditioned yet. Its full of suspended yeast, that's what makes it cloudy. It is nowhere near a "tasting" stage. Bottle the brew, leave for a minimum of 8 weeks and enjoy

 

[johnnyboy1965]

the second runnings were for a totally separate beer, a single hopped columbus.

If you sparge correctly, there will not be any sugars left for a "second " running

 

[vanderkidd]

There is nothing wrong with your beer, it just hasn't conditioned yet. Its full of suspended yeast, that's what makes it cloudy. It is nowhere near a "tasting" stage. Bottle the brew, leave for a minimum of 8 weeks and enjoy

thanks for your reply, however, I have brewed this beer before and I know that when comparing the appearance and taste at the end of primary there is definitely something not quite right this time round.

Whilst I'm not expecting it to be crystal clear, it should be much clearer than the pineapple juice appearance it currently has.

I also know through past experience that if its not tasting as expected at each stage you're best not to just bash on with the original plan as you may end up wasting valuable ingredients and time.

 

[Slid]

I am no expert on AG brewing, but I would suggest leaving the brew in the primary FV at the top end of your temp range for another week.

I would also suggest that moving it back and forth may well have slowed down the fermentation process and that it might be OK if left to its own devices.

When I have re-used yeast in the past I have also noticed that it took longer to clear second time around.

 

[MyQul]

I am no expert on AG brewing, but I would suggest leaving the brew in the primary FV at the top end of your temp range for another week.

I would also suggest that moving it back and forth may well have slowed down the fermentation process and that it might be OK if left to its own devices.

When I have re-used yeast in the past I have also noticed that it took longer to clear second time around.

Sorry slid, I'm unclear on what your advising here:

"but I would suggest leaving the brew in the primary FV at the top end of your temp range for another week. "

If your advising to clear the beer, I understand it needs to be cooler, 'cold crashed' in effect, rather than warmer

"I would also suggest that moving it back and forth may well have slowed down the fermentation process and that it might be OK if left to its own devices."

Moving it back and forth, in effect re-suspending any yeast will possibly restart (if there's any available sugars to consume) any fermentation rather than slowing it down

As I say I'm not sure which post your replying to. :hat:

 

[Slid]

Ok, mate, no worries, sorry about this.

I'm basically suggesting that fermentation may not be complete here, due to too low fermentation temps. Hence suggesting another week at 20C.

Also the cloudiness may be due to using the less flocculating yeast from the previous brew.

And I totally accept that you may well know better than me. :thumb:

 

[jokeyjon]

I think the key is the residual sweetness, which coupled with the possibility of coller temps and the look of it would suggest to me that it hasn't finished fermenting. It would be good to rouse it (I just sterilise a stick and give it a good stir) and keep it at a warm temp for another week or two. If fermentation hadn't finished, then it will restart and if fermentation had finished, then there is no harm done. After that, crash it for a few days and then let the bottle conditioning take care of any residual off flavours. Time does heal many wounds in brewing!

In response to the earlier poster asking about second runnings post sparge, my understanding is that the first runnings are the emptying of the liquor you mashed with and the second runnings are the results of sparging. This is called parti-gyle brewing - you use different parts of the mashing process to priduce different beers.

 

[Covrich]

Since it is only 2 weeks old I wouldn't worry yet.

Id gently stir it and try and bring up the temp a bit and leave it for another week then decide what to do next.

I have had beers bottled which looked mucky but then after a week - 10 days conditioning they are clear.

 

[clibit]

I agree with Slid and others, based on my experience. I re-used US-05 once and it did the same thing. It eventually cleared in the bottle but it took a good while and it was at least 3 months before it came good. I remember thinking the last bottle was fantastic about 6 months after bottling.

I may have done things wrong then though. I never cold conditioned it. I think you should leave it in primary and make sure you reach the FG. And then I would put it somewhere cold until the yeast drops out, before bottling. It's very early days, chances are it will turn out fine.

 

[DoctorMick]

Moving it back and forth, in effect re-suspending any yeast will possibly restart (if there's any available sugars to consume) any fermentation rather than slowing it down

That's a good point, it'd also cause the brew to go cloudy due to said re-suspended yeast wouldn't it?

 

[vanderkidd]

Thanks all for the replies. Here's where we're now at. I went with dry hopping it on Friday. Left for three days then moved to cool. The beer is now much clearer, but still has a haze. Flavour is still not defined like I'm used to when using US05. I'm going to put my worry's down to trying a new yeast for my IPA and not knowing what to expect from it.

I've spent tonight bottling it, will check the results in a few weeks, cheers!