Cleaning equipment after using diastaticus yeast

[Simonh82]

I'm brewing a hoppy saison at the moment using Safale BE-134 which is a diastatic yeast strain that will break down starches and dextrins to give a very low final gravity. Great in a saison but I'm aware that some breweries have had bad infections with diastatic yeast.

How do people clean their equipment after using saison yeasts? I usually use PBW to clean my fermentor and other equipment and then sanitise with star san. I thought I might use an iodine based sanitiser this time as I believe star san isn't always effective against yeast.

Do people take any other precautions or have you been OK using these strains without problems.

 

[steveinUS]

My go-to Saison yeast is Belle Saison which is also a diastaticus strain. Brewed many batches with no detected ill effects on later beers using the same equipment (whether glass, plastic, or stainless fermenters). My cleaning and sanitizing regimen is as you have mentioned, with the occasional exception of using SaniClean in lieu of Star San.

 

[Sadfield]

Oxy and Starsan is what I've always used since my very first brew, which was using Belle Saison. Using a longer contact time with the Starsan (+5 minutes) will kill the yeast.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Quality_Assurance

 

[foxy]

I'm brewing a hoppy saison at the moment using Safale BE-134 which is a diastatic yeast strain that will break down starches and dextrins to give a very low final gravity. Great in a saison but I'm aware that some breweries have had bad infections with diastatic yeast.

How do people clean their equipment after using saison yeasts? I usually use PBW to clean my fermentor and other equipment and then sanitise with star san. I thought I might use an iodine based sanitiser this time as I believe star san isn't always effective against yeast.

Do people take any other precautions or have you been OK using these strains without problems.

Do what a lot of the breweries do use a specified fermenter for saisons, usually installed well away from the other fermenters.

 

[Simonh82]

Do what a lot of the breweries do use a specified fermenter for saisons, usually installed well away from the other fermenters.

I use a 35L stainless steel fermentor and whilst I definitely got the budget version, I don't think I could stretch to a second one just for Saisons.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Resurrecting an old thread as I'm pretty certain I've contaminated my stainless steel fermenter with saison yeast from a previous brew. Any recommendations ?

Replacing the fermenter isn't an option as it's expensive. Can you use the above chemicals in stainless steel or will some react with the metal. What about trying to kill the yeast with boiling water? Any other suggestions?

I have grainfather all purpose cleaner (CIP), starsan, and VWP. I can get other cleaners if necessary.

As for bottles, will a hot cycle in the dishwasher kill off the yeast?

 

[Sadfield]

I asked both Fermentis and Lallemand what they recommended for homebrewers that are aren't using commercial, caustic based CIP. No reply from Fermentis, but Lallemand suggested the following.

'Different diastatic strains will have different tolerances, but for our Lalbrew Belle Saison the viability drops to nearly zero after 10 minutes at 65°c. If you can get up to 80°c that would be ideal.'

They went on to say that they thought normal cleaning sanitation should be enough because diastatic strains have been around for years and the implications of loss aren't that much for homebrewers.

Which probably explains the lack of best practice advice given to homebrewers buying their product.

65°c nearly gets rid of it.

80°c is too hot for many of the popular PET FVs.

Saying that, I've not had an issue yet with oxy at hot tap water temp for 20-30 minutes. The starsan. Using Brett, bacteria and diastaticus.

 

[Pennine]

Bleach has always worked for me for the difficult strains.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/sanitizing-your-equipment

 

[Agentgonzo]

Bleach has always worked for me for the difficult strains.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/sanitizing-your-equipment

I thought bleach wasn't recommended for stainless steel kit?

 

[Agentgonzo]

My previous cleaning regime has been thoroughly cleaning with plain water and a kitchen sponge to physically remove stuff, then leave it to dry. Then just before use, I starsan it for about 10 minutes. This has been fine for all situations for years apart from this last brew with Belle Saison. Though thinking about it, it's impossible to thoroughly scrub the drain valve and I've normally just flushed it with water and assumed everything came out.

Need to be more rigorous with saison yeast in future.

I think I need to put all my bottles through the dishwasher on a hot setting

 

[Pennine]

I thought bleach wasn't recommended for stainless steel kit?

Yes you are correct, sorry I had plastic fermenters on my mind for some reason. Indont ferment with diastaticus yeast in my stainless fermenters.
I have however used bleach before in stainless but keep the contact time limited and rinse well. After I rinse I then let it soak in starsan for a while.

 

[Agentgonzo]

The follow-up question would be how to test that I've got rid of the diastaticus? I'm thinking a short batch with a high mash temperature and wang it into the fermenter. If it attenuates below 1.010, then I can be fairly confident the diastaticus has gone. Thoughts?

Maybe I might get some DME and steep some crystal malt to save the effort of a short grain brew

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Iodine is another alternative, it will stain your plastic fermenters.
Povidone is one formulation.

 

[Pennine]

O

The follow-up question would be how to test that I've got rid of the diastaticus? I'm thinking a short batch with a high mash temperature and wang it into the fermenter. If it attenuates below 1.010, then I can be fairly confident the diastaticus has gone. Thoughts?

Maybe I might get some DME and steep some crystal malt to save the effort of a short grain brew

I have had it twice and the only way I knew was after the beer sat in the bottles for 2-3 weeks they would become gushers. I never had issues with it attenuating too much in the fermenter. I would do the nuclear option and take every thing apart wash it well, put it back together and dump boiling water in it, then iodophor or starsan. Or do a short contact time with bleach too.

 

[An Ankoù]

Bleach has always worked for me for the difficult strains.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/sanitizing-your-equipment

Bleach with plastic fermenters and chemipro wash with SS.
For those who, like me, can't run to a dedicated SS fermenter, why not dedicate a cheap plastic one?

 

[Sadfield]

The follow-up question would be how to test that I've got rid of the diastaticus? I'm thinking a short batch with a high mash temperature and wang it into the fermenter. If it attenuates below 1.010, then I can be fairly confident the diastaticus has gone. Thoughts?

Maybe I might get some DME and steep some crystal malt to save the effort of a short grain brew

Or just brew something that you don't mind potentially over attenuating. Say, if you brewed a Stout with a medium attenuating yeast and the diastaticus is still there, you'll end up with a dry stout.

If possible keg it, except for one or two bottles. If it has fermented out to target gravity and you put it into PET bottles without priming, any significant carbonation and drop in gravity after a month would likely be diastaticus.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I brewed a lager after a saison and it went very dry. I subsequently cleaned the living daylight out the FV with fairy liquid, then oxy, then I sloshed a load of boiling water around in it, then starsan. If that doesn't work, I will give up and buy a new FV, and mark that one as use for Saison/sour type yeasts.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Bleach with plastic fermenters and chemipro wash with SS.
For those who, like me, can't run to a dedicated SS fermenter, why not dedicate a cheap plastic one?

I'm thinking of doing that in future (buying a cheap dedicated plastic one for saison - annoying as when I upgraded to stainless, I donated my plastic kit to a uni student on gumtree)

 

[Agentgonzo]

If possible keg it,

I don't have the room for a keg setup unfortunately. It's bottles all the way until we get a bigger house

 

[An Ankoù]

I don't have the room for a keg setup unfortunately. It's bottles all the way until we get a bigger house

Get a bigger house, convert it into a brewery, continue to live in the smaller house so as not to clutter up the brewery. Job done.