Clean in place - mounting the pump

[PeterB]

Hi

I have a 3 tier, all grain system, largely linked with standard 15mm copper tubing and am wondering if I can remove the few flexible tubes I do have, and attempt to clean in place (CIP) to simplify things a bit.

My pump is one of these LINK which I have been using for years (since 2010) and is nice and powerful, never jammed, etc.

I use sodium percarbonate to clean, typically by pumping it through the system - round and round, with some manual scrubbing of the boiler. Then pouring it out, adding clean water to rinse then disconnecting the pump and the 2 flexible hoses that connect it to the rest of the plumbing and drain that in the sink, hanging the hoses up to dry out.

So I was thinking, if I can mount my pump in such a way that it can drain, so have taps at the lowest points below the pump in and out, then that would allow a CIP approach.

I am looking for any ideas and advice - have I got the wrong end of the stick? I am especially interested in any ones' experience in mounting a pump in this way - does it need to be upside down? On it's side? Any gotchas?

Cheers

 

[Dutto]

I've never used a pump; but until I used a different system of cleaning, I did discover black mould growing inside some of the clear plastic pipes that I used.

Personally, I can't see anything wrong with a CIP system for the simple reason that (as far as I am aware) no-one dismantles everything down to the last washer when they start taking things apart to clean them at the end of a brewing session.

I use Star-San for final sanitising (it doesn't leave a white deposit behind when it finally dries out) so that is one of the two suggestions I make with regard to your CIP plan.

The second suggestion is that you circulate the Star-San mixture around the system as a "final rinse" rather than using the clean water that you mention. It was clean water that propagated the black mould I mentioned earlier and in the two years since I started using Star-San for the final rinse, the mould hasn't reappeared!

Hope this helps.

 

[PeterB]

I can do Star San - it doesn't need to be sterile as this is all up to the point of boil, but if it avoids mould and I would likely have mixed some up to clean the fermenter - so why not!

 

[LeeH]

I CIP with no issue.

However, I do periodically CIP with Antiformin S and rinse with cold water.

Pumps also get stripped down twice a year.

It’s very cheap if you can collect from Murphy and sons. 1 quid per L and it dilutes 1-2 percent.

 

[stz]

I CIP without issue. I do have flexible pipes though. I use a three vessel stainless system. I do have to prime my pump with either manual filling of the pipework or by carefully starting a siphon on the out pipe. Ideally you have the pump and heat exchanger below the copper and you can crack the outlet on the heat exchanger to let it bleed air and fill up which will also prime the pump. The main problem with fixed hard pipe is an inability to clear an airlock, but if you design it correctly with valves in the right places there shouldn't be a problem. You've also got to avoid dead legs in a hard pipe design, junctions to nowhere, even a powerful pump will fail to clean these areas. If you built it properly gravity will do all the work. would want a T on the return with a valve on both sides so you can bleed the out.

I use chlorinated caustic at 1-2%. When I've finished my sparge and I'm waiting to come to the boil I bring out a jerry can of the stuff and put the 'in' and start a siphon into a jug. I usually ditch the first bit because it can be dirty and I don't want to return it to the main tank. Then I can put the 'out' pipe into the jerry can and start it up. I leave it running for at least 30 minutes throughout the boil. I then swap everything over for clean water and again, ditch the first few bits coming through, but eventually allow it to recirculate clean water which I might replace once or twice to ensure the caustic is gone/sufficiently dilute. I don't use sanitiser, I recirculate boiling wort for the last 10-15 minutes of the boil. Again, gravity or slight siphon to start, ditch the first few 100ml.

In the image you'll see when that valve is open flow is allowed into the copper. When it is closed there is another valve behind the thermometer which allows me to bleed the pump, especially if flow in is submerged.

 

[PeterB]

Do you think I need to mount my pump upside down to allow it to drain , or on its side?

 

[trevorS]

Looking at the pump design on the link ,if you want the pump to drain you would have to mount it upside down which, according to the spec isn't a problem, but you need to consider that the pump is not self priming so would have to have a flooded suction on starting!

Hope this helps

 

[PeterB]

Looking at the pump design on the link ,if you want the pump to drain you would have to mount it upside down which, according to the spec isn't a problem, but you need to consider that the pump is not self priming so would have to have a flooded suction on starting!

Hope this helps

I came to the same conclusion. I'm gonna give it a go with pushfit and see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice.

Pete