Catering urn boilers - any use?

[Wontigonk]

Still new to this, but thinking of the future (eg Christmas and /or my birthday...) do catering urn water boilers make good wort boilers? I read about it on a blog, but lost the bookmark.

Is anyone out there doing it? I presume it would be possible to fit a hop filter to the outlet to filter the hops and trub.

 

[corby_brewer]

i take it your thinking about a BURCO BOILER?

 

[evanvine]

To my mind if it boils and it's big enough it'll do!

 

[Wontigonk]

Yes, its a Burco or similar I'm thinking of - the sort that makes welcome tea for the masses at the end of a cold day. I reckon it could make something even better to warm the tropps!

 

[corby_brewer]

i use a 30ltr burco, and after a bit of modification to disconect the thermostat it works a treat.

 

[Wontigonk]

Thanks for the reassurance davesiv and evanine - I just picked up a second hand one on EBay, so thats my Crimbo present come early I guess. With that and a malt extract boiling merrily on the cooker as I type, its a sucessful day for beer - so far!

Out of interest, how did you disconnect the thermostat davesiv? The one I've bought (Swan 27 litre) claims to have a "simmerstat", with variable heat control. Does it still not get hot enough, or is going to be different in the 2 models? Thats probably a "how long is a piece of string" question...

 

[evanvine]

Just connect the two wires to the thermostat together, it'll never turn off till you switch it off.

 

[Wontigonk]

Like it! I'll sort that when it arrives.

 

[corby_brewer]

This is how i modified the BURCO, i dont know if the SWAN is the same tho.

1. Disconnect both ends of the grey wire that runs from the upper element connection to the back of the thermostat - and discarding this wire

2. Disconnect the end of the blue wire at the back of the thermostat and reconnecting it to the now vacant upper connection of the element.

 

[jamesb]

Out of interest, how did you disconnect the thermostat davesiv? The one I've bought (Swan 27 litre) claims to have a "simmerstat", with variable heat control. Does it still not get hot enough, or is going to be different in the 2 models? Thats probably a "how long is a piece of string" question...

I have this boiler, you don't need to modify it. As you move past "6", you should feel a click in the dial. If you leave it there it automatically leaves the element permanently on.

Only problem with this boiler is that you have to top up with water throughout the boil as it's not quite big enough for an easy 23l brew. But I've used it for a long time now and am quite happy with it.

 

[Wontigonk]

Thanks davesiv for the info, although it looks like I struck lucky and wont need to meddle!

Jamesb, I take your point re the size, but as a second hand EBay special, it was too good to miss. I'm happy to top up - I'm only on ME at present anyway.

Out of interest, have you fitted a strainer at the bottom? I was reading about using perforated copper sheet for that. If you do, should it go above the outlet height (logic suggests yes, but then logic is a fickle mistress). Is 3mm the right sort of hole size? I'm also reading that freely circulating hops and grain are better than using hop bags, although I suppose that will mean getting my head around sparging as opposed to rinsing... Can that make up some of the volume lost in the boil?

Still at least yesterdays effort has a healthy protective head on the fermenting bin now, so these worries can wait in the knowledge that it should be a good Christmas!

 

[jamesb]

Out of interest, have you fitted a strainer at the bottom? I was reading about using perforated copper sheet for that. If you do, should it go above the outlet height (logic suggests yes, but then logic is a fickle mistress). Is 3mm the right sort of hole size? I'm also reading that freely circulating hops and grain are better than using hop bags, although I suppose that will mean getting my head around sparging as opposed to rinsing... Can that make up some of the volume lost in the boil?

I made a hop strainer out of copper pipe with 2mm holes in that sits on the bottom around the element. You could make a false bottom I suppose although I'd wonder if it would impede some of the boil currents.

(sparging is rinsing )

 

[aeddon]

I use a 30l perry urn and its great, although predictably i want to go bigger. its has a variable thermostat up to 106c which is good, does a 20l brew at ease. the taps are a pain, the hole is flat on two sides, like a rectangle oval if you know what i mean, so exchanging for ball valve needs the hole ground into a circle, otherwise the tap is good enough. Althou you cant attach anything on the otherside. I wedged the hop strainer in by cutting a down the copper pipe and squeezing it in. not ideal but it works

I'm think i'm going to use it as a HLT and upgrade to a 50 or 70l copper

 

[evanvine]

if it works, aeddon, it'll do!
it doesn't have to look pretty.

 

[Wontigonk]

Jamesb,

The boiler arrived today - as its destined to be a Christmas pressie (to me!), I'm not allowed to see it yet. No great dramas as I've got my first batch maturing and second batch brewing so no spare barrels.

My wife tells me its got an exposed element in the bottom. The brew kettles I’ve seen on line seem to have as well. I now understand your comment about your perforated coper pipe sitting around the elment. What shape did you end up with, and any tips if you were doing it again? Has this caused you any issue? I am still toying with the issue of making a perforated bottom out of copper sheet, but NB’d the comment about interfering with circulation.

Overall, grateful for any tips on working with this particular model!

 

[Bribie]

A couple of Australian urns - Crown and Birko (yes I know the name is suss but it's a top quality company ) come in 40 litre size, with a choice of 2400 watts or 3400 watts. However I'm not sure if they are available in the UK.

I use my Birko for Brew in a Bag. It starts off as the HLT, then I fit the bag, dough in, turn off the urn and lag it with a duvet (1 - 2 degree temp drop which is ok) hoist and strain the bag, then it becomes the kettle. I use a hop sock so no hop strainer required for the boil. A lot of Aussies use this one-vessel system. With tweaking you can use a 30L urn but you are a bit constrained in the beer strengths available if you are doing 'normal' 23 L brews.

 

[jamesb]

Jamesb,
My wife tells me its got an exposed element in the bottom. The brew kettles I’ve seen on line seem to have as well. I now understand your comment about your perforated coper pipe sitting around the elment. What shape did you end up with, and any tips if you were doing it again? Has this caused you any issue? I am still toying with the issue of making a perforated bottom out of copper sheet, but NB’d the comment about interfering with circulation.
Overall, grateful for any tips on working with this particular model!

I used 10mm copper pipe with 2mm holes drilled in it and bent it around the element. Don't do that.

You'd be better off drilling the inside of the tap off to 15mm (or using a little bit of 10mm pipe and a 10-15mm coupling), some elbows and have it sit on the bottom of the boiler. Make sure that there's no holes above the bottom otherwise you'll leave a load of wort behind.

I haven't got a photo of what I'm trying to describe though. Something like this. You should be able to angle it away from the element.

 

[evanvine]

Like the drawing JB, did you do that on Excel?

 

[jamesb]

Like the drawing JB, did you do that on Excel?

MS Paint.

You can tell that I missed my calling as the next Michaelangelo.

 

[evanvine]

Don't be so hard on your self, it's only lacking the little flourishes!