"Cask conditioned", "nearly" real ale ...

[peebee]

I took the article elsewhere because people were being far too kind to me here! I was rewarded in this "elsewhere" with a good "mauling"!
But I might yet come back with it?

 

[peebee]

I have just picked up this thread after waiting for someone who uses aspirators, or breathers to chime in. I was going to go down that route and wanted to see what other folks impressions were.

So they way I see it and after reading your thread, is that a low pressure regulator set @1-2 psi will be able to maintain the CO2 disolved in the beer by either natural carbonation, or by some level priming with small amounts of sugar?

As I have already bought a breather, I may aswell try it and then add a regulator if the carbonation is not to my liking.

A quick followup: A breather can be fine as long as you are not expecting to use it with a "corny" keg. But even then you can muck about with the kegs so that they may be laid on their sides. Even the common (37mbar) "propane" regulators have only enough puff to empty half of a Corny. But you can get 50-150mbar variable "propane" regulators (look for ones without a POL connecter), or use a pump (hand pump) and then even a breather will work. The "propane" regulators will help retain some carbonation, but it can still take a week or two to lose most of the carbonation if using a breather.

 

[Lanky94]

A quick followup: A breather can be fine as long as you are not expecting to use it with a "corny" keg. But even then you can muck about with the kegs so that they may be laid on their sides. Even the common (37mbar) "propane" regulators have only enough puff to empty half of a Corny. But you can get 50-150mbar variable "propane" regulators (look for ones without a POL connecter), or use a pump (hand pump) and then even a breather will work. The "propane" regulators will help retain some carbonation, but it can still take a week or two to lose most of the carbonation if using a breather.

)

I have just kegged ( sankey) a 5 gallon batch of Marris Otter (84.9%), Crystal 60L(10.31%) and caraamber( 5.36%), hopped with stryians (late in boil), EKG and progress. From previous advice from your good self, I primed with 15 grams of sugar. This will be pumped and a breather will be used. 5g gallons dosnt last long so now probs about losing carb!!:mrgreen: Should turn out good.

 

[peebee]

)

I have just kegged ( sankey) a 5 gallon batch of Marris Otter (84.9%), Crystal 60L(10.31%) and caraamber( 5.36%), hopped with stryians (late in boil), EKG and progress. From previous advice from your good self, I primed with 15 grams of sugar. This will be pumped and a breather will be used. 5g gallons dosnt last long so now probs about losing carb!!:mrgreen: Should turn out good.

I suspect that brew has been and gone by now. Hope it met with expectations.

I've gained a bit more knowledge as the winter months give way to summer. You might well be experiencing similar issues especially as you were only using a breather?

Over winter the propane regulator was set to 150mbar, or about maintaining 1.1 volumes of CO2, about ideal. Temperature of beer was about 13-14 degrees, also about ideal.

Now it's fast approaching summer and temperature of beer has risen to 15-16 degrees. Where I used to have 30-50mm of head I've now got just islands of foam floating about on the beer. Still fine beer, but noticeably lower in carbonation; doesn't bode well for high summer. Physics in action, I shouldn't be surprised, seems there is a very good reason why "cellar temperature" is 12-14 degrees, any higher just won't allow the beer to hold onto a good amount of condition.

So rapidly working on plans to keep beer at a slightly lower temperature. Learning the hard way on why there is no great effort to brew decent "cask conditioned" style beer; it's all about coaxing beer along something of a tight-rope, its just easier to crank up the gas (CO2) pressure and chuck it in a modified fridge.

 

[Honk]

Some great information here, sorry to drag up an oldish thread but I'm mainly posting here so I can find it again, unless anyone has any further thoughts / updates?

I'm wanting to use a beer engine and going to start with small polypins but may upgrade to some form of cask in the future. I don't presently have any co2 source other than 8g bulbs.

My understanding is that cornie kegs whilst popular arn't so great at low carbonation levels so some form of pub cask might be better if i could preserve the beer long enough that its not going off with just one person drinking it.

 

[peebee]

Some great information here, sorry to drag up an oldish thread but I'm mainly posting here so I can find it again, unless anyone has any further thoughts / updates?

I'm wanting to use a beer engine and going to start with small polypins but may upgrade to some form of cask in the future. I don't presently have any co2 source other than 8g bulbs.

My understanding is that cornie kegs whilst popular arn't so great at low carbonation levels so some form of pub cask might be better if i could preserve the beer long enough that its not going off with just one person drinking it.

I'll take that as a nudge that I promised to post a revamped version of my "cask-conditioned" article. May still be a while off as everything takes a bit longer since they replaced my hip with car parts the other day.

I've not used polypins recently, but many do with a beer engine. Sticking a couple of heavy books on the 'pin may help retain a bit of condition for a month? The main disadvantage is that they are permeable to gases (CO2 and oxygen being the critical ones) so beer in a polypin may only have a shelf life of six weeks.

Cornie kegs can be dodgy sealing at low pressure (most will be okay) but the main advantage of using cornie kegs is beginning to wane ... they were cheap!

 

[Honk]

I'll take that as a nudge that I promised to post a revamped version of my "cask-conditioned" article. May still be a while off as everything takes a bit longer since they replaced my hip with car parts the other day.

I've not used polypins recently, but many do with a beer engine. Sticking a couple of heavy books on the 'pin may help retain a bit of condition for a month? The main disadvantage is that they are permeable to gases (CO2 and oxygen being the critical ones) so beer in a polypin may only have a shelf life of six weeks.

Cornie kegs can be dodgy sealing at low pressure (most will be okay) but the main advantage of using cornie kegs is beginning to wane ... they were cheap!

Not really a nudge as I've only just found this thread which has some great information but when your ready and your hip allows...

Going to be the polypin route to start with to keep costs down but concerned about the shelf life, I wouldn't normally start a beer till the 6 week point, disposable bag in a box type bags are available with a double layer so might give these a try.

 

[BarnBrian]

I've just bought a scuba demand valve second stage and hose for £10 on fleabay. I'll connect it to my CO2 reg. and make an adaptor on the mouthpiece to go to 3/8 JG to supply gas to 2 cornies as my plan is to have two beer engines on line at the same time.
I'll report back if it's successful or not.

Brian

 

[peebee]

Not really a nudge as I've only just found this thread which has some great information but when your ready and your hip allows...

Well I did get on with it. You can find it here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwzEv5tRM-5EQUhZbDNPdmV1bWc
Still short of the "how-to"s (need some more photos) but otherwise complete. Although some of the comments recently added for using "mixed gas" to tweak dispensing of "real ale" style home-brew might get me fried alive.

... Going to be the polypin route to start with to keep costs down but concerned about the shelf life, I wouldn't normally start a beer till the 6 week point, disposable bag in a box type bags are available with a double layer so might give these a try.

Just a warning. I've spoken to folk who've had trouble with these double skinned BIB bags - the CO2 migrates to the space between the skins and the beer does not retain condition.

 

[Wynne]

Thank you, peebee, for a very thorough an interesting article. I realise this is an old thread but well worth a read nonetheless. What do you suggest to use as a “trap” to prevent the back flow of beer into the rest of the venting assembly?

 

[peebee]

Hi @Wynne. An empty water filter housing, but I got these mini versions for something else recently: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garden-M...var=532722651385&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (with suitable connectors), but you would need to be quick with them if you do get a "blow back": They aint very big. Basically anything that can be plumbed into the line. The trap is only a precaution and I've not had it do its job yet. And I'll only use the venting assembly initially because my low pressure gas lines have the bubble-counters built-in these days (piccie of bubble counter being used in anger - the keg has got itself over pressured at 5psi):

(I'm a bit of a geek; you don't need such elaborate CO2 control boxes really).

 

[Wynne]

Thank you, peebee.

 

[Hoddy]

I still dont understand exactly what it is you are trying to achieve or understand here.

 

[peebee]

I still dont understand exactly what it is you are trying to achieve or understand here.

But what are you trying to understand? Who is "you"; me or @Wynne?

I think @Wynne was referring to my "cask condition" article https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwzEv5tRM-5EQUhZbDNPdmV1bWc which has been doing the rounds about here for a while now. But woke up a 2-1/2 year old thread to refer to it. I think that might be the source of your confusion?