Ale Storage Advice

[foxy]

Maybe if you could get something like these without having to buy in quantity. Surely someone must be importing them.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.8.718a1ce9gvLo1d

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

If you could buy replacement bags, you could probably get the PET bottles Foxy mentioned for nothing from a bar that sells a lot of craft beer as a lot of smaller breweries use them and they're non-returnable.

Polypins are easy to use with a hand pull. I used to use one in a large cool box with an ice pack around the pin's tap and some John Guest fitting which enabled me to pull through after use without disconnecting the pump.

The pros and cons I found using polypins were -

Pros:

-No bottles to clean
-Only one container to prime

Cons:

-Beer takes longer to come into condition rather than in bulk than in bottles.
-Plastic is porous to gas, so the beer is at danger of staling due to oxygen ingress and therefore in my opinion, only good for lower alcohol beer which comes into condition quicker and you'll drink more of.

If you want to know more, I can send a photo of my set up and recommend a thread on another forum that goes into great detail about polypins from skmeone who has excellent results in conjunction with a hand pull.

I think the bottom line though is that in order to use a hand pull beer engine, you need to be pulling a lot of beer through. Someone mentioned using cornelius kegs and I'm sure I've read or heard of someone using a hand oull with one, but you'd need to use it with C02 at least to expel the oxygen that would be drawn into the keg.

 

[Chiplover]

If you could buy replacement bags, you could probably get the PET bottles Foxy mentioned for nothing from a bar that sells a lot of craft beer as a lot of smaller breweries use them and they're non-returnable.

Thanks for the reply, polypins and bags seem the best bet, I would probably get through 5litres over a weekend. My concern was leaving bags for up to 2 months before opening. Think it’d be a case of just trying it now

Polypins are easy to use with a hand pull. I used to use one in a large cool box with an ice pack around the pin's tap and some John Guest fitting which enabled me to pull through after use without disconnecting the pump.

The pros and cons I found using polypins were -

Pros:

-No bottles to clean
-Only one container to prime

Cons:

-Beer takes longer to come into condition rather than in bulk than in bottles.
-Plastic is porous to gas, so the beer is at danger of staling due to oxygen ingress and therefore in my opinion, only good for lower alcohol beer which comes into condition quicker and you'll drink more of.

If you want to know more, I can send a photo of my set up and recommend a thread on another forum that goes into great detail about polypins from skmeone who has excellent results in conjunction with a hand pull.

I think the bottom line though is that in order to use a hand pull beer engine, you need to be pulling a lot of beer through. Someone mentioned using cornelius kegs and I'm sure I've read or heard of someone using a hand oull with one, but you'd need to use it with C02 at least to expel the oxygen that would be drawn into the keg.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I'd say bag in a box is probably less permeable to oxygen, but you need more equipment to fill them and I think you'd have a hard time connecting the taps to a piece of hose, as the taps will only open for as long as you have the button depressed. Polypin taps are a lever and you can leave the tap open for a whole session.

If you're a practical kind of person, you may be able to overcome the tap on a bag-in-a-box. Buy a box of wine. They hae the same size tap as the large ones used for cider.

As for polypins, you could buy a full one from a brewery and reuse it, or they're a tenner or so feom homebrew shops. Having given it some thought, you could use a cornelius keg to condition it and then rack it into a polypin, this would get around the permeability factor, but involves more cost and effort not to lose the C02 when racking.

This is the kind of thing you need to dispense with a hand pull from a polypin (you could use the same if you can find a way around the tap on a bag).

 

[Chiplover]

I'd say bag in a box is probably less permeable to oxygen, but you need more equipment to fill them and I think you'd have a hard time connecting the taps to a piece of hose, as the taps will only open for as long as you have the button depressed. Polypin taps are a lever and you can leave the tap open for a whole session.

If you're a practical kind of person, you may be able to overcome the tap on a bag-in-a-box. Buy a box of wine. They hae the same size tap as the large ones used for cider.

As for polypins, you could buy a full one from a brewery and reuse it, or they're a tenner or so feom homebrew shops. Having given it some thought, you could use a cornelius keg to condition it and then rack it into a polypin, this would get around the permeability factor, but involves more cost and effort not to lose the C02 when racking.

This is the kind of thing you need to dispense with a hand pull from a polypin (you could use the same if you can find a way around the tap on a bag).View attachment 31149

Thanks again for the reply, sorry I messed up the reply on my last post. I think I’ll try a few things over my next few brews and make some notes, probably update on here with my very amateurish findings

 

[Mavroz]

I'd say bag in a box is probably less permeable to oxygen, but you need more equipment to fill them and I think you'd have a hard time connecting the taps to a piece of hose, as the taps will only open for as long as you have the button depressed. Polypin taps are a lever and you can leave the tap open for a whole session.

If you're a practical kind of person, you may be able to overcome the tap on a bag-in-a-box. Buy a box of wine. They hae the same size tap as the large ones used for cider.

As for polypins, you could buy a full one from a brewery and reuse it, or they're a tenner or so feom homebrew shops. Having given it some thought, you could use a cornelius keg to condition it and then rack it into a polypin, this would get around the permeability factor, but involves more cost and effort not to lose the C02 when racking.

This is the kind of thing you need to dispense with a hand pull from a polypin (you could use the same if you can find a way around the tap on a bag).View attachment 31149

When i started making bag in a box beer, i did not need any extra equipment other than the bags, boxes and a connector, than i have for bottling.

The bags are filled from the tap on the bottling bucket via a length of brewery hose.

The taps on the bags are kept open by the connector/coupler. This allows the beer to flow, get a genuine Vitop and it also has a not return valve built in which i am not sure the cheap Chinese ones do.

 

[Chiplover]

When i started making bag in a box beer, i did not need any extra equipment other than the bags, boxes and a connector, than i have for bottling.

The bags are filled from the tap on the bottling bucket via a length of brewery hose.

The taps on the bags are kept open by the connector/coupler. This allows the beer to flow, get a genuine Vitop and it also has a not return valve built in which i am not sure the cheap Chinese ones do.

Good to know! I have a spare around too. thank you

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

When I started making bag in a box beer, I did not need any extra equipment other than the bags, boxes and a connector, than i have for bottling.

The bags are filled from the tap on the bottling bucket via a length of brewery hose.

The taps on the bags are kept open by the connector/coupler. This allows the beer to flow, get a genuine Vitop and it also has a not return valve built in which i am not sure the cheap Chinese ones do.

Thanks Mavroz. I stand absolutely corrected. Last time I looked at the Jigsaw BIB website a few years ago, it seemed it would be worth buying the pliers and the perspex bag filling aid and the cost seemed too much over polypins. Also, I don't remember the connector, so maybe it's been added since, or I didn't get that far.

Is there any chance you could post some photos of your filling and dispense set up? I'd like to give this some serious consideration and I now know of someone with a trade account with Jigsaw, so hope I might be able to get them to order me some!

 

[Bernie]

1.King keg with co2 - I believe this will keep the beer in fairly good condition and a combo of conditioning and co2 can be used to account for the handpull drawing liquid to replace the air.
2.rack to several small volume bag in a box- much easier dispensing setup with no worries about replacing air and 3-5litres would easily get used over a weekend/week, However how long is a bag going to last unopened if it ends up being a few months?

3.Invite people round

 

[Mavroz]

Hi, I can put another picture up of dispense but don't have any of bag filling I am afraid. It is simply make up a box, put bag in it and fill. I use the tap on the bottling bucket with a length of hose instead of the bottle filling device.
I am still experimenting with carbonation, although using an engine, seriously doubt it needs any extra priming sugar, only leaving a few weeks to condition in the bags.
The bags do seem to be double skinned, allowing any Co2 to build up in the outer skin. You don't need the pliers if you have strong ish fingers as the taps enter the bags quite easily.
If you email Jigsaw with your reuirement, they will send an invoice and you can pay with a card over the phone if you wish to. No need for a trade account.

 

[Chiplover]

Hi, I can put another picture up of dispense but don't have any of bag filling I am afraid. It is simply make up a box, put bag in it and fill. I use the tap on the bottling bucket with a length of hose instead of the bottle filling device.
I am still experimenting with carbonation, although using an engine, seriously doubt it needs any extra priming sugar, only leaving a few weeks to condition in the bags.
The bags do seem to be double skinned, allowing any Co2 to build up in the outer skin. You don't need the pliers if you have strong ish fingers as the taps enter the bags quite easily.
If you email Jigsaw with your reuirement, they will send an invoice and you can pay with a card over the phone if you wish to. No need for a trade account.

Glad to hear you’ve got it working well, and the bags do a good job for storage too

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I've been given a 9 litre bag, so will order an connector soon. I'm a little nervous about the bag bursting.

Mavroz, are you able to offer any tips on how much to underfill the bags by and maybe how many gravity points ahead of terminal gravity we should transfer to the bag?

 

[Chiplover]

I've been given a 9 litre bag, so will order an connector soon. I'm a little nervous about the bag bursting.

Mavroz, are you able to offer any tips on how much to underfill the bags by and maybe how many gravity points ahead of terminal gravity we should transfer to the bag?

I haven’t done it yet but have seen people filling on YouTube leaving a fairly small area filled with the head/foam, they seem to fill with foam pouring out which I assume takes as much oxygen as possible out

 

[Mavroz]

I have experimented with 3 or 4 brews, carbonating and non carbonating.
I have never bagged anything below FG ... I always wait for it to fully ferment out and this will probably be the way i always go.
All my brews are bottled or bagged at around 4 degrees which the brew/FV has been kept at for 3 or 4 days.
I have used various amounts of priming sugar solution for different 10 pint bags and the last ones that i have started drinking now had 2 grams per 20 litres.
The next one i drink will not be carbonated whatsoever, as i personally don't think it needs it when using a handpull.

When filling the bags, i always try to bottom fill, totally eliminating any foam.
I fill right to the top, technically giving me around 12 litres per bag! The more in, the better, i am not selling it.
I do swap many bottles with the local farm shop, the local shop, the hairdresser, the farrier etc etc for free services they offer. The come back for more, so i am definitely doing something right.
Anyway, the bags need venting ( i fill mine right up to the neck) while they condition.
If you don't, the bags will surely burst i would have thought.
2 ways i do this, one is with my own use beer, i insert the tap fully, remove the security seal from the tap and when the bags/boxes start to swell, just press the tap with it in an upright position and vent the Co2 out....
The other way, if it is for anyone else (i like to leave the security seal on the tap), i just push the tap in about 1/4 of the way, partially removing it to vent the Co2 (you hear the hiss when you are releasing gas)... When conditioned or secondary fermentation has stopped or the bag does not swell as much, the tap can be fully inserted and box glued up.

I am currently drinking a nice Bitter / Ale that was from Grain to Glass in around 17 days...... Very nice BUT will leave to condition longer to improve the taste.
The ales conditioning now will be for Xmas Time. I have every confidence the bags will be perfectly fine for a long long while.

 

[Mavroz]

10 litre bag in the picture...
Box is my own creation, i have access to cardboard boxes.

You can also get 5 litre, 20 litre and bigger (i think). Personally for me 10 litre are easy to handle.

Ale from said box.....