Carlsberg Marstons

[trummy]

I can remember Everards tankers travelling along the then A50 between Burton and Leicester. I was told rightly or wrongly that they did not contain beer but Burton brewing water (as an aside)
As for takeovers I agree with the above but there is also 'predatory takeovers' where larger brewery's buy out the smaller ones (or did) for their real estate with no intention of letting the bought out brewery continue brewing.
What really makes me mad about Marstons is the shackles placed on their licensees- only allowing them to sell beers from their estate - most pretty nondiscript.

 

[robster62]

The final nail in the coffin for RIngwood, I suspect.
Here's the list from: Marston's Beers and Breweries

• Marston’s

• Banks’s

• Jennings

• Ringwood

• Wychwood

• Brakspear

• Mansfield

• Shipyard

• Revisionist

• Wainwright

• Lancaster Bomber

• Eagle

• Bombardier

• Young’s

• McEWAN’S

• Courage

• DE14

Eagle and bombardier both former Charles Wells beers

 

[An Ankoù]

I can remember Everards tankers travelling along the then A50 between Burton and Leicester. I was told rightly or wrongly that they did not contain beer but Burton brewing water (as an aside)
As for takeovers I agree with the above but there is also 'predatory takeovers' where larger brewery's buy out the smaller ones (or did) for their real estate with no intention of letting the bought out brewery continue brewing.
What really makes me mad about Marstons is the shackles placed on their licensees- only allowing them to sell beers from their estate - most pretty nondiscript.

In fairness, the last time I drank in the Porterhouse in Westbourne (a RIngwood pub) about 6 years ago, all the Ringwood standards were on sale and the appropriate seasonal, together with Shipyard on keg. I don'[t remember seeing a Marston's branded beer (but I could have overlooked it) and they didn't seem to have messed with the the les brewing of RIngwood beers. Fullers, I understand took a similar approach with the Gales takeover, but I don't know Gales very well so I can't really comment. So, my point is, fair does to Marstons, but I can't see Carlsberg or, for that matter, Asahi, being as open-minded. Neither do I accept that business concerns are the only concerns that matter. That's tripe. It does seem to be the way of things in practice, but tripe nevertheless.

 

[terrym]

I can remember Everards tankers travelling along the then A50 between Burton and Leicester. I was told rightly or wrongly that they did not contain beer but Burton brewing water (as an aside)
As for takeovers I agree with the above but there is also 'predatory takeovers' where larger brewery's buy out the smaller ones (or did) for their real estate with no intention of letting the bought out brewery continue brewing.
What really makes me mad about Marstons is the shackles placed on their licensees- only allowing them to sell beers from their estate - most pretty nondiscript.

Everards had a brewery in Burton. They took it over in about 1900 and used it until about 1980 when it was sold to a brewery museum concern who ran it for about 10 years, but continued to brew Tiger bitter under contract. I remember going round it on a tour but it was a bit run down. After the museum closed the brewery stood derelict for many years but has since been converted to apartments. And so the tankers you saw might have been moving beer from Burton to Leicester.

 

[Galena]

What really makes me mad about Marstons is the shackles placed on their licensees- only allowing them to sell beers from their estate - most pretty nondiscript.

Robinsons do that, which is a shame because they seem incapable of brewing a decent beer themselves.

 

[marshbrewer]

Erm, the whole point of a tied estate is to have a market for your wares.

 

[Galena]

Erm, the whole point of a tied estate is to have a market for your wares.

Don't some allow a Guest Ale?

 

[marshbrewer]

Don't some allow a Guest Ale?

Some do, some don't. It all depends on their business model. Those who do, tend to also distribute beer so offer it to their landlords as part of their catalogue, if you see what I mean - the landlords can't just nip down the road to another brewery and get a firkin of something interesting as their guest beer.

 

[Clint]

What I dislike is the gradual "cheapening" of the product...until it's nothing like what it used to be.
I find this is mostly noticeable to non regular drinkers of it as I think if you habitually drink the same beer you don't notice the subtle changes.

 

[peebee]

Robinsons do that, which is a shame because they seem incapable of brewing a decent beer themselves.

How dare you! Heretic!

Ah, okay, I do only drink their "Old Tom". No idea what the rest is like despite working a few yards from them for a few years (late 80s, early 90s).

 

[marshbrewer]

Both Trooper and Old Tom are good beers, IMHO.

 

[Norfolk79]

Robinsons do that, which is a shame because they seem incapable of brewing a decent beer themselves.

And for a minute I thought you were talking about the squash come fruit shoot making company

 

[Clint]

Well....I've just had email from Wychwood brewery regarding Hobgoblin Gold..
All they would indicate was a "rough guide"...
Pale and wheat. Hops... Admiral for bittering,heavy on summit,citra and NS late in the boil and dry hop...

 

[trummy]

Both Trooper and Old Tom are good beers, IMHO.

Old Tom excellent with English Cheese

 

[Galena]

Both Trooper and Old Tom are good beers, IMHO.

Not tried Old Tom but I'm not keen on Trooper, they do a Dizzy Blonde which just didn't quite cut it against other much better Blonde Ales IMO. The Robinsons pub I did frequent for a while put an IPA on which was quite good but I only ever saw it the once.

 

[Rodcx500z]

2 of the best brews wychwood did were the dogs bollocks and toothless hooker, but my fav was blackwitch

 

[peebee]

How dare you! Heretic!

Ah, okay, I do only drink their "Old Tom". No idea what the rest is like despite working a few yards from them for a few years (late 80s, early 90s).

Not tried Old Tom but I'm not keen on Trooper, they do a Dizzy Blonde which just didn't quite cut it against other much better Blonde Ales IMO. The Robinsons pub I did frequent for a while put an IPA on which was quite good but I only ever saw it the once.

Robinsons are responsible for "Trooper" and "Dizzy Blonde"?

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I'll replenish my stock of "Old Tom" then join the queue to apply for "heretic" status.

 

[Hanglow]

I found most of their beers have a distinct metallic taste that reminds me of sucking on a coin. I do like Old Tom though, I think at least it's been a while since I've tried it!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Don't some allow a Guest Ale?

The Beer Orders that required a guest ale were abolished in 2003, it was after that Wolves/Marstons bought up the likes of Ringwood so that they could provide the illusion of choice on the bar whilst keeping it all in house.

The underlying problem is that cask ale is in decline, and beer in general is an industry that is all about scale, so it's really tough for the smaller breweries to be competitive selling into the national market. Hence you've seen the likes of Wells and Thwaites sell their national brands to Marston's, get rid of their old big brewery, and use the cash to build a smaller, modern brewery to just supply their tied pubs.

The big story is the shift in economic power to the lager brewers, reflecting the fact that 70% of the on-trade beer market by value is now lager (ale is 23% of which half is cask). Which is why Star (ie Heineken) is now in the top 3 of pub owners. And since lager is all Heineken care about, you'll find Star will tie the lager lines very tightly, but can give some flexibility on the cask lines - although they would prefer the pub to sell Caledonian (100% Heineken) or Theakston (30% Heineken). The Marston deal is a cheap way for Carlsberg to tie up the lager lines in 1700 Marston sites.

If you view cask ale - and brown bitter in particular - as an industry in decline, then Marston and Greene King have played the role of consolidator in a declining industry, there is value in brands, but only if you can back them with economies of scale. There are other approaches to cope with the decline of brown bitter - even though it's meant to be their flagship brand you hardly see Spitfire in Sheps pubs these days, except in city centres, Whitstable Pale now seems to be the default cask ale.

 

[Galena]

The underlying problem is that cask ale is in decline, and beer in general is an industry that is all about scale, so it's really tough for the smaller breweries to be competitive selling into the national market.

You paint a depressing picture and I am sure you are correct, however until the end of last year I traveled quite extensively throughout the UK for work and never had much difficulty finding pubs that sold decent cask ales, in fact that was one of the pleasures of staying away. True many of these were from smaller breweries in Free Houses. Most of these were out in the countryside so I can't speak of town pubs and I am sure some of them were now owned by the corporations and I was not aware of it but it seemed quite healthy to me.
Now I am not working but there are 5 or 6 breweries within 10 miles of my house and all supply cask ales to local pubs.